Evangelism is NOT a Debate!

[00:00:02] Speaker A: But sometimes we only use scripture to have conversations to prove our point. Yeah. And when you're using scripture to prove your point to someone who doesn't believe in scripture, you're getting into a circular argument. But I think that that's exactly how we evangelize. A lot of times we turn evangelism into a debate and we're trying to score more points than them to where we can finally prove to them that we're right and they're wrong. And even if we do win the debate, that's all we' done is win a debate. I agree. [00:00:34] Speaker B: We have turned it into debate 101. [00:00:37] Speaker A: Everybody wants to be rocked. [00:00:38] Speaker B: Yes. [00:00:39] Speaker A: You know, that's the problem. [00:00:41] Speaker C: I never seen a debate where the person that did not believe in God or not believe in Christianity haven't repented. [00:00:50] Speaker A: I've seen debates on any subject where the loser believed that they lost. Yeah, generally. [00:00:56] Speaker C: Well, yeah, a lot that comes to my mind. [00:01:04] Speaker B: Oh, man. How's everybody doing? [00:01:06] Speaker C: Good. How y' all doing? I've got everything out. Are you gonna be to the meeting tonight because. [00:01:10] Speaker A: Yes. [00:01:11] Speaker B: I'm not staying for the training. [00:01:13] Speaker C: I'm not. Last time. If you're hungry, you want me. [00:01:17] Speaker B: Well, I did stay, I think for a while. [00:01:19] Speaker C: Oh yeah? [00:01:19] Speaker B: Yeah. But there is no sense in me being at a training. [00:01:22] Speaker C: I'm going to serve. [00:01:24] Speaker A: Why? [00:01:24] Speaker C: Because I'm going to be there. [00:01:25] Speaker B: Well, now, do you need me to stay and serve? I don't mind doing that. [00:01:29] Speaker C: I can do it. [00:01:31] Speaker B: Well, I just. [00:01:32] Speaker C: Unless you want to take my place now. [00:01:34] Speaker B: No, I'm, I'm. I can tell you I don't feel like I need to be at that meeting. I've got enough going on and really. [00:01:40] Speaker C: I'm not sure you even have to attend based on the agenda unless you want to. You only have to turn that because it's not going to be long. I just, I don't believe it. Well, we don't have much on there now and I know what you're saying. That can be talked to death. [00:01:57] Speaker A: Point. [00:01:57] Speaker B: Yes, I know what you're saying. That can be taught to death. You're exactly right. [00:02:04] Speaker A: This is the deacons. [00:02:05] Speaker B: No, this is a deacon thing. He did a great job by the way. The deacons banquet, man, I was. That was. That was the best deacons banquet I've ever been to. I'm telling you, that was comedy hour. [00:02:15] Speaker C: Because you messed up so much. [00:02:17] Speaker B: Your stand up was on. It was on point, man. Everybody was like, man, this is like a stand up show. You did great. Did you know you're that funny. [00:02:26] Speaker C: It's something you have to work on. [00:02:32] Speaker A: Peaceful practicing. [00:02:33] Speaker C: Yes. Well, when I talk to you about it. [00:02:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:37] Speaker C: And you laugh. [00:02:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:39] Speaker C: A couple other people. There's something here. And then you develop it. [00:02:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:43] Speaker C: And. And that takes time. That's not something that you just walk up and. Yeah. [00:02:46] Speaker B: You're just not born with that. Yeah. [00:02:48] Speaker C: I'm not. [00:02:49] Speaker B: I know. You got to work on it. [00:02:50] Speaker C: And. [00:02:51] Speaker B: And comedy. Timing is everything. [00:02:52] Speaker C: And it's all about the timing. [00:02:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:55] Speaker C: Yeah. When to say what. You have somebody going that way. Then you talk and they say something. And that's the fun. Fun part. Yeah. Not expecting anything. [00:03:05] Speaker B: Indeed. [00:03:05] Speaker C: Affecting something. The other side. That's what's so. [00:03:10] Speaker B: But indeed, sir. [00:03:11] Speaker A: Weekly comedy. [00:03:13] Speaker C: You do it. You do it every day. [00:03:17] Speaker B: It is. [00:03:17] Speaker C: This is. [00:03:18] Speaker B: What do you call. Improv. Improv. [00:03:20] Speaker C: I got my experience here. [00:03:21] Speaker B: Yeah. That's it. That's it, man. And it shows. But that was. You did a great job. That was by far. He just shared some of the communion stories and they were really true. [00:03:32] Speaker C: I know I. I might have over. Yeah. [00:03:37] Speaker B: You embellish it a little bit. [00:03:38] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean. [00:03:39] Speaker B: Such as. [00:03:39] Speaker C: But that's what makes it. [00:03:40] Speaker B: Him lining up with a whistle. Making us run suicides. Communion practice on a Friday night. Run it back. Y. That was great. You know, he did. [00:03:49] Speaker C: Welcome. S. Never. [00:03:50] Speaker B: Never in my life had somebody on a Friday night. We're gonna have convenient practice. I had. [00:03:58] Speaker A: You boys are terrible. [00:04:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:01] Speaker B: I'm here. If we're gonna do this right. We're gonna do it. [00:04:04] Speaker A: For some reason I'm picturing Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer in the Reindeer Games. [00:04:10] Speaker B: A little bit. Like it. [00:04:11] Speaker C: Or just not to practice. We were trying out for the team. [00:04:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:15] Speaker A: No. Wow. [00:04:16] Speaker B: I mean it really was. [00:04:17] Speaker A: It was. [00:04:18] Speaker C: He was. [00:04:18] Speaker B: That. That was. That cracked me up because I was like, boys. [00:04:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:22] Speaker B: Out in the world. [00:04:23] Speaker C: But when. You know, like when I said one person put it on the piano and one person took it off. Yeah. [00:04:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:31] Speaker C: But that was. [00:04:31] Speaker B: But now we did have them crisscrossing. What is he doing? [00:04:35] Speaker C: Because I ain't. That's all I saw. Yeah. But one put it on piano. The other one couldn't take it off. [00:04:40] Speaker B: And he didn't even mention the empty plate. Didn't you mention the behind the back pass? I mean, that was. But that would have been more towards your folly. [00:04:49] Speaker A: No. [00:04:50] Speaker C: No. Who got the MVP for making the least amount of mistakes? I did. [00:04:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:00] Speaker B: I love what Bernie said after. He said there's one common denominator in all those Stories. [00:05:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:05:08] Speaker B: Oh, Bernard. He. Pretty sharp guy. [00:05:10] Speaker C: Well, I told. [00:05:12] Speaker B: Yeah, Everybody was cool with it. You did? [00:05:14] Speaker C: I just did the leaders. [00:05:15] Speaker B: It was good. And a lot of. A lot of. Had a lot of good widows there, and I know they appreciate that. [00:05:20] Speaker C: Good gracious. Do you have any? [00:05:22] Speaker B: No. How many? [00:05:24] Speaker C: 20. [00:05:24] Speaker A: 20 widows. [00:05:26] Speaker C: That's about 20 signed up. I don't know who came, but, yes, there was quite a few. Pretty impressive. [00:05:35] Speaker B: No, it's a lot of fun. A lot of fun. And then you said in the. I didn't know what you were doing Sunday because you sat right. Either in front of the handicap I had to move or the back handicap. I was like, man, that. That looks funny. And I think it's because there's an indention there. [00:05:50] Speaker A: Yeah, Well, I came in during the baptisms. I was running late. And when I went to my normal spot. No, I went to my normal spot, and there were Bibles there. People were saving seats. [00:06:03] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:06:04] Speaker C: Okay. [00:06:05] Speaker A: So I'm like, well, I'm. The baptisms are going on. I'm like, I gotta find somewhere. So I see Doug all by himself in the front pew. I'm like, I wanna go sit with Doug. [00:06:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:13] Speaker A: So I go sit down there, and I sat with him. But that's a small pew. And he was. You know, there were places there. [00:06:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Karen Kim. [00:06:21] Speaker A: So during the breeding, I was like, okay, I'm gonna leave that pew so that Doug's family's got somewhere to sit. And I just need somewhere to hang out for the children's church. I had children's church. [00:06:33] Speaker B: You got a children's church? Okay. [00:06:34] Speaker A: So I just needed somewhere to hang tight until we did the offering. So I was like, okay, I found a spot that was free there. And I looked. I was like, I don't know if I'm in the handicapped spot or if I'm. I thought that the few in front of me said handicaps there. I was like, I'm not gonna be here five minutes anyway. As soon as they do the offering, I'll be up out of here. But talk about improv. I'm on my way up to children's church. And you said, today you're gonna be learning about the prophet Zachariah. I thought, no, you ain't, because I stubbed Daniel in the lion's den. So what happened was. And I there. And then Jean was. She said, this is a great story. Today we've got Daniel. And I said, well, Ben said we had Zachariah. We were supposed to be on Zachariah. You Were correct. But our last session was December, which is when we did the Christmas party. [00:07:25] Speaker B: So y' all are a week. Kind of week behind. [00:07:28] Speaker A: Well, we're a month behind. See, she and I do it every third Sunday. So we both looked at our books and said, okay, our next one is Daniel. [00:07:35] Speaker B: Daniel Boat. I wonder if they did Daniel last week. [00:07:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:39] Speaker A: Because it would have been a month ago. [00:07:40] Speaker C: See, we stay on target. We did the. What have you said? We did the Nehemiah. [00:07:46] Speaker A: And yeah, Zachariah would be next in. I think basically just the Zachariah lesson is going to get skipped. Because next time we'll be back in sequence. [00:07:53] Speaker C: Schedule. [00:07:54] Speaker A: But we just. We don't sound like it. Well, we are off. Me and Gene are off sequence. [00:07:58] Speaker C: We're following. We're doing every four. [00:08:00] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:01] Speaker C: So we're on our fourth. [00:08:02] Speaker B: I know that, but all I'm doing is I'm going by the. Okay, this is the next lesson. I'm going to create the lesson for you that you have the video and all that. [00:08:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:11] Speaker B: So that's why Zachariah was this. This week's. [00:08:14] Speaker A: Basically, you were correct. But since both Gene and I were both wrong and both prepared for Daniel, we were like, well, we're going to do Daniel. [00:08:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:23] Speaker A: Because we prepared. [00:08:23] Speaker B: You could have easily gone in and found that. [00:08:25] Speaker A: We did. Found the videos for that. [00:08:27] Speaker C: Okay. [00:08:27] Speaker A: Because you. You said Zachariah. I was like, well, let me pull it up. And we pulled it up and that was. The video was Zachariah. And I was like, okay, well, the videos were Zachariah. Ben said Zachariah. We both thought it was Daniel, so we had to go through the slides and find it. But we found Daniel and we did that one. [00:08:43] Speaker C: So you did week three. [00:08:44] Speaker A: We do week three, but we did December's week three. [00:08:47] Speaker C: Okay. [00:08:47] Speaker A: Because December was week one. Was. Was the first month from the book. [00:08:52] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:52] Speaker A: But we were both thinking, it's January. This is probably the first book, the first lesson. And we both had skipped the first week for the first lesson. So we both looked at it and thought, okay, I'm probably making it more confusing than it really is. [00:09:05] Speaker C: But we both thought you did enough. You didn't do this third week for January. You did. [00:09:11] Speaker A: We did a third week for December, but the kids never got that lesson because it was skipped for the Christmas party. [00:09:17] Speaker B: Right. [00:09:17] Speaker A: So we're just. [00:09:19] Speaker C: And we do the second week of January, and we'll do the second week of February. I don't know. What? I don't know. We're not following. We're just doing what, the week that we're supposed to. Whatever he sets up. [00:09:31] Speaker A: But we thought we were doing. These are, we got, I mean, it. [00:09:34] Speaker B: Follows the book, though. And so what I'm trying to figure out if I need to have Zachariah out there or do I need to have our next lesson. I think it's the next lesson because that's what y' all would do. [00:09:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I think. [00:09:45] Speaker B: Okay. [00:09:45] Speaker A: Just pick up the next lesson. Let's pretend we did. [00:09:47] Speaker B: No, you're not. [00:09:48] Speaker A: Forget that I told you that. Y' all doing Zachariah. Yeah. [00:09:51] Speaker B: No, you're not. [00:09:52] Speaker A: You said do a Zachariah. I said, well, somebody else is going to be needing to. [00:09:56] Speaker C: I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I got it. [00:09:58] Speaker B: That, that, that makes sense. [00:10:00] Speaker C: Whatever's on the book, that's what we're going to do. [00:10:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:10:02] Speaker C: I mean, right? [00:10:02] Speaker B: And we're in good shape. Yeah. [00:10:04] Speaker C: Renee's on. [00:10:06] Speaker A: We were the ones who were wrong. [00:10:07] Speaker B: No, we ain't doing Zachariah. [00:10:08] Speaker C: You know, Renee does it right. She's, she's good at that. She's never gets off in another month or something. [00:10:14] Speaker B: Like, I bet. I, I, I get what you say. [00:10:17] Speaker C: I know if Jean thought we were. [00:10:18] Speaker A: Doing Zachariah, we would have done Zachariah. But since she also thought we were, I was like, well, since both of us, yeah, she's picking the one we skipped. And so was I. So I was like, well, you didn't. [00:10:28] Speaker C: Know it was in sequence. [00:10:29] Speaker A: I knew it was in sequence. Yeah. But the first, I'm thinking it's the first of the year. It's a brand new book. I haven't taught out of this book yet. What's the first lesson for week three. And it's that one. But I didn't realize everybody else had already taught the first four lessons, you know, in December. So I went in and labeled it now so I'll know what, what month. [00:10:48] Speaker B: And that is the bad thing. When you go September, October, November, that's a quarter. Then December, January, that's it. So it's in the middle of the month when you started a new year, so. [00:10:56] Speaker A: Or middle of the blossom. [00:10:58] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah. [00:10:58] Speaker C: Okay. The eighth. That's what one will do. [00:11:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, we got 25th for regardless. [00:11:04] Speaker C: If we didn't do the. [00:11:05] Speaker A: Yeah, we have. [00:11:08] Speaker B: No, no, it's 25th. Then we start back at your next one. [00:11:11] Speaker C: Yeah. There's 25 Sundays. And I mean, there's five Sundays in February. Yep. [00:11:19] Speaker B: Can you believe it? That can only happen, like, once. I believe once every five, 10 years. Yeah, it's got to be a first. [00:11:27] Speaker A: First, eighth, 15th, 22nd. You need a 29th. We don't have a 29th this year. [00:11:32] Speaker B: Yeah, there's only four. But it has happened. [00:11:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:35] Speaker A: Yeah, it could happen if the first. If it's a leap year and the first is a Sunday. [00:11:40] Speaker B: Yes. [00:11:40] Speaker C: So how many leap years are there? [00:11:43] Speaker A: Every four years. [00:11:44] Speaker C: Every four years and then seven. So it could happen every 28 years. [00:11:52] Speaker A: I'm going to take your word for that one. [00:11:53] Speaker B: And I've seen it happen. We've had it happen one time in my life. [00:11:57] Speaker C: Yeah, it might happen again. [00:11:59] Speaker B: I don't know. I think it's gotta line up just right. It ain't automatic. [00:12:04] Speaker C: It is. [00:12:06] Speaker B: I think that's like every 300 years. [00:12:08] Speaker C: It could be. I was just. I was just doing the simple man. [00:12:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, I think it does line up. That it's got to be like. Don't quote me on that. [00:12:17] Speaker A: We need to do some. Google that while he. [00:12:19] Speaker B: Yeah, while he's looking that up. [00:12:21] Speaker A: Welcome to the other 167. [00:12:22] Speaker B: Yes. [00:12:23] Speaker A: If you are not thoroughly confused yet, you. You should be pretty good. [00:12:27] Speaker B: It's been one of them days, man. [00:12:29] Speaker C: Boy, how many years you're talking about, huh? It depends on how many years. [00:12:35] Speaker B: What do you mean, how many years? [00:12:36] Speaker C: You said how many years can you. February. Happy 5th. It depends on how many years you're talking about. [00:12:41] Speaker A: A fifth every year. Fifth Sunday. Yeah. [00:12:44] Speaker B: How many. [00:12:44] Speaker C: February has got a fifth Sunday? [00:12:47] Speaker B: Like one time in 500 years. [00:12:50] Speaker C: I know. How. [00:12:51] Speaker B: How often does five Sundays pop in February? But a good Sunday, it was. It was. I don't know. It felt a little odd, I think. I'm telling you, man. Let me miss a Sunday because I was out the Sunday before because of the ski trip. It just feels weird when I. [00:13:10] Speaker C: It's real. [00:13:10] Speaker B: I don't know what it is. It's just. I don't know if it's just being out of practice or feeling like, oh, here in a while. Big crowd for a rainy, snowy, slash threatening day. Thank you. [00:13:26] Speaker A: Oh, what I'm hearing, I. [00:13:28] Speaker B: This is me. We'll be able to go back on record at. See, I don't think you're going to have church this Sunday, really. That's just me personally. Now. I'm going to go ahead and have my sermon ready. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not doing like the old, oh, it's going snow tomorrow. I ain't doing my homework. Yeah, here you go. No, we're gonna have a sermon Ready? [00:13:45] Speaker A: Now if it does snow you out, will you just bump that one to the next week? [00:13:49] Speaker B: We'll bump that into the next week. And we're gonna have a devotion. I'm gonna film a devotion come Friday or Thursday. [00:13:56] Speaker C: That. [00:13:56] Speaker B: Okay. In case something happens, we're gonna just have like a little Bible study. [00:14:01] Speaker A: So you got John 7 this week or John 8. [00:14:03] Speaker B: John 7. John 7. He is the. No, it's interesting. When you read it, he never says he's the living water. He says, come to me all you who thirst, and I'll give you water. And then John at the end of that chapter says, he said this referring to the Holy Spirit. So Jesus is the fountain, the Holy Spirit is the water. And if you really. The more I looked at it last night, I was like, well, he never says I'm the living water. Like he says, I'm the bread from heaven. No, he just says, I'll give you water. [00:14:35] Speaker A: Okay, we're going to get into what that means in the sermon. [00:14:40] Speaker B: We can, we can go into a little bit here, but we can also go, we're definitely going to go into it in this. [00:14:44] Speaker A: So he's the fountain of the living water. That makes sense. Living water is the Holy Spirit. That makes sense. [00:14:49] Speaker B: And he's even talking in that passage of I'm going away. You know where I'm going. And then also he, he tells his disciples earlier that, hey, I'm going away, and then the Holy Spirit will come unto you. And so it is. He's the one who gives us the Holy Spirit by his death, burial and resurrection. Okay, now the Holy Spirit can appear. [00:15:08] Speaker A: We might get into the, the fountain in a minute. I, I want a couple other things real quick, though. I saw something the other day and I really want to. Not like this. [00:15:17] Speaker B: Okay? [00:15:18] Speaker A: But I haven't quite figured out if, if I'm, if I'm writing and doing so here. There's a, a sermon. It's not a sermon, but it's a clip of a pastor and it's a fire and brimstone preacher. Okay. Fire and brimstone preacher. [00:15:30] Speaker B: Very rip. [00:15:31] Speaker A: And I'm watching this. It's like a two minute clue. It's nothing long, but he is just going off on the church and the sin in the church and how we're celebrating sin in the church and saying, you know, I've seen people in this congregation congratulate people who've gotten pregnant out of wedlock. And I've seen, you know, celebrating it and, you know, shouldn't we be compassionate and shouldn't we be loving? Well, yeah, we should be loving, but you got to know what sin. They don't know this is a sin. They don't know this is a sin. And he also says in it that, you know, there's people in the choir that aren't living right. And you can't represent Jesus if you're not living right. And so that part, he said, if you're not, then we got to kick you out. Not of the church, but the choir. And I'm. I say, I don't know if I want to like this or not, because I know I don't want to like it. [00:16:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:17] Speaker A: But okay, I think for me, I got. We got to define living in sin versus being human. [00:16:23] Speaker C: Yeah, I think. [00:16:24] Speaker A: Because I haven't quite figured out where that line is. If you tell me if we're living in sin, we can't be leaders or we can't be in the choir or we can't represent Jesus. Right. Well, then I'm gonna need a lot more clarification on what living in sin is, because I know what we tend to think of it as. Living with somebody out of wedlock, being in a homosexual relationship. [00:16:42] Speaker B: The big stuff. [00:16:42] Speaker A: Yeah, the big stuff. But I'm sitting here thinking, why is this sin any different than self righteousness or being judgmental or being whatever? [00:16:51] Speaker B: I mean, can I answer that? [00:16:53] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's hear it. [00:16:56] Speaker A: That was the main point. [00:16:58] Speaker B: I think one of the reasons is, is because that is. That is something that is public. When you're talking about homosexuality or you're talking about. That is one that is seen and people know of not saying that it makes it right or wrong. It's just that that is open and that is for public knowledge and people know it. And that in itself opens itself up to. Well, look at that. Church versus okay, yeah, we all struggle with various sins. Whether it's gluttony, whether it's self righteousness, whether it's pride, whether it's. Who knows? But when it is open like that, I think that opens itself to where, okay, now the church, openly, knowingly this guy's doing this has put him there. To me, that opens yourself up to criticism. It opens itself up to. That's not where you want to put Christ church or the bride of Christ. And so it's a tough one because I'm of the same notion of sounds kind of self righteous or kind of picky and choosy, but when it's open and public and something like That I think it kind of goes back to. There's a rule of thumb that the confession of sin needs to be to the level of which it was committed or the making up of sin needs to be. In other words, look, if me and my wife have a disagreement on something and we get into a brouhaha, I don't need to go before the church and apologize to the church unless it happened in front of the church and it rises to the level of which the egregiousness offended. And so that one is putting that egregiousness out for everybody to see. And so that's, that's one of the reasons that I feel like that you run into for, for that as far as. And I think when you do that, if you put like. And again, this is too easy and it's not a slam on anybody, but if you, you put an openly homosexual homose. Actual in charge of something in the church that does kind of say, okay, we're good with this. Yeah. [00:19:01] Speaker C: And yeah, Hershey witness. Because I know what you're saying. Yes. [00:19:04] Speaker B: And so I think it, I think it again, it arises to how public it is. And again, that doesn't say we're concealing sin or that because we all have sin. Let's just be honest. I mean, every last one of us has got issues. [00:19:16] Speaker C: What you say is that that type of sin because it's public turns people away from Christ and it gives them the. Well, turns people away from going to church and it gives them ammunition to criticize it. [00:19:31] Speaker B: There you go. When David had adulterous affair with Bathsheba, one of the things that Nathan brought to him was you have given the enemy an opportunity to blaspheme the name of God. In other words, people are going to say, uh huh, look at God's people, look at him. He's supposed to be the king of Israel and the king God's with him. And you've given an opportunity to blaspheme the name of God. And so that's, that's again, that's what you need to think about when you put someone in that position. That is, that is not a, that's opening yourself up for people to say, man, either what's going on over there? [00:20:10] Speaker C: Or well, and the other. Now if someone, if we thought homosexuality in our culture, nobody really care. It's like a white lie, which is. That's what our culture is. Then you wouldn't have to worry about that. But it's so blatant that every, you know, that is terrible. In our minds now. And so we have to address that. But if you. You don't have to go in front of the church. I wouldn't say non Christian people are. Christian people are out there upset about you. Town of Whitehall. Okay. It doesn't affect anything. I mean, of course it's. But in God's eyes, it's bad, right? [00:20:54] Speaker B: To the level of. [00:20:55] Speaker C: It doesn't relate to that it needs. [00:21:01] Speaker B: To match up to. But that's in making it right and recompense and all that. This is in regards to putting someone in a position, though. And I think that's part of it. [00:21:13] Speaker A: The second part of his rant was ran, but the second part was talking about the choir. The first part was celebrating people. It was. The way he brought it up was there are people sleeping together out of wedlock and nobody's saying anything to them. And there's people that have had. That have gotten pregnant out of wedlock and there's. People are saying congratulations to them and how can you be doing that? And like, that's. That one was probably a little bit trickier to me because it's like, okay, well, congratulations. Isn't. This isn't necessarily ignoring the sin. It's right. Maybe, maybe because I'm sensitive to that one, because I've had that exact scenario happen. It is greatest blessing I could have ever asked for. In the end, when God's done working with it. Now, it doesn't mean that it wasn't a sin. [00:22:03] Speaker C: Right? [00:22:03] Speaker A: It just means that God does good things with our sins. [00:22:05] Speaker C: Okay? [00:22:07] Speaker A: But at the same time, it's like, okay, I can understand that. Congratulations not being a pat on the back necessarily, but, you know, but we're fickle people. If you tell people, don't you congratulate that person? What's going to happen next? People are going to start shunning them and turning their back on them, which. That's just one of those. He might be technically right, but you're trying to walk a very, very thin tightrope. [00:22:26] Speaker B: And I think that's. I think that's when you begin to. Again, that's nothing more than legalism in itself of, okay, that's not the right thing to do. That doesn't fit my rules. That doesn't fit my standards. We have had. I think it's fair to share this. This is many, many, many years ago. In fact, the folks that are. I'm about to tell. I'm not using their names, none of them are still in the church. So I can share this. A young lady single out of wedlock, had a child. We had a rosebud over on the right hand side of the church, which we always do, or left hand side of the church, depending on whichever one it is and recognize the birth of that child. Well, we had somebody come up after that service and say we shouldn't be doing that. And we're, you know, you're recognizing a child born out of wedlock. And my response to them was she had an opportunity to abort that child. She chose not to. She gave birth to that child and we as a church need to help her to raise that child. So why shouldn't we have a flower in there? And she, she didn't really answer that. It kind of was. Well, still don't. I think we're glorifying in. I said, no, I'm not glorifying that. I'm thanking the Lord for arrival of a child. Okay, now we need to raise her up in Christ. [00:23:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:46] Speaker B: So it was, for them, it was a tough, tough thing to recognize a child born out of wedlock. So, you know, could, could it be that pastor would say we're celebrating a child born out of wedlock? No, I'm celebrating a child, period. [00:24:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:00] Speaker B: I could care less. That child can't help how it was conceived. That child is now a someone that bears the image of, of God. And we need to. That we as a church are pouring our lives into her so she can respond to the gospel. I care. That's how she was conceived. [00:24:16] Speaker A: Right. [00:24:18] Speaker C: This what you're talking about. Being born out of wedlock and not having abortion would tim t benefit that illustration because he. I don't know what happened, but I do know there was an option for his mother to abort him. [00:24:34] Speaker B: I think, I think that's. I think it would be that according to. I don't, I don't know what. [00:24:40] Speaker C: All I know is he's thank. He's thankful and he. About his mother not affording and look at what, what he has succeeded and do. [00:24:52] Speaker B: I think, I think, I think you're right in that. I know, I know there's something behind it, but. [00:24:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:24:57] Speaker A: Well, it's. These are topics that are, they're. They're biblically clear. Okay. No, no one's going to say, well, I don't think it's. Well, some might not say. I don't think there's anything wrong with sleeping with somebody out of, out of wedlock. But then biblically wrong. They're saying that. [00:25:12] Speaker C: Right. [00:25:12] Speaker A: Someone could say, well, I don't think it's a sin, homosexuality. But they'd be biblically wrong in saying that. But at the same time, you've got some other topics that are straight up opinion that are not even biblically clear. We've talked about some of those before. But then you still got the distinction between. Okay, even when something is clearly biblical sin. [00:25:35] Speaker C: Right. [00:25:36] Speaker B: Straightforward. [00:25:37] Speaker A: Right. Like the child out of wedlock for the woman who says we shouldn't celebrate that we shouldn't have the rose up there. Okay, well, now are you. What's your view of that child then? Do you think it's not, since it wasn't born in the legitimate way, that we're going to treat it differently than others? Because now we're going very Old Testament where you believe that you're the man that asked Jesus or the people that ask Jesus, is this person blinds the Father? Or, you know, we're assuming that someone is cursed because they were born out. [00:26:08] Speaker B: Of wedlock or that they're irredeemable. [00:26:11] Speaker A: Right. [00:26:11] Speaker B: They don't need to be in here. Yeah. [00:26:13] Speaker A: And I guess one of the big questions that I have for today is when Jesus says, if you love me, you'll obey my commands, he says it over and over and over and over. [00:26:21] Speaker B: That's really what's about. [00:26:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:23] Speaker A: Do we believe, and I'm not sure if I'm talking to we as in the three of us, we as the church, we as the Baptist, or we as Christians. Do we believe that he's referring to every single Leviticus law when he says, if you love me, you'll obey my commands? They were technically God's commands, the ones that were truly commands, not the tradition the Pharisees came up with. Or do we believe that he's referring to love your neighbor, love God, love God, love your neighbor. That's the one he keeps hitting on. If you love me, you will obey my commands. They will know that you love me by your love for one another. He keeps talking about the love thing, but are some people taking the stance that. No, no, no. He means everything in the Levitic law and the Mosaic law? [00:27:01] Speaker B: Yeah. And I don't know that whether I eat shrimp or not, it goes into that. [00:27:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:06] Speaker B: I do think he is getting more to the, to the heart of the matter. And that's the whole thing is the law is not. I don't think the law was to be. Well, I know it was. That the intention was. It's got to be followed to the letter. Letter and to the detail, the jot and iota. Well, that's the point of the law is to show you you can't do this. The point of the law is to show me I am in desperate need and I can't save myself. The point of the law is to show me I'm a failure when it comes to trying to save myself. And so therefore, I need a savior. That's the point of law. So if you're going to sum up the whole law or try to do the whole law, it can't be done. We know that. So therefore, Jesus then goes and says, all right, let's get to the heart behind the law. What is it that I'm really looking for? And that is. You got it. Love God, Love people. I mean, that's. It can be all summed up. All 613 negative and all the positive commands can be summed up in those two things. I can't even do that. Right. [00:28:04] Speaker A: Right. [00:28:05] Speaker B: So again, that goes back to I've got to be born again. It shows me I've got to have help on this, because I can't even do that part right. Even when you boil it down to two. [00:28:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:15] Speaker B: And so does that. Does that help? [00:28:17] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:28:18] Speaker B: Explain that. [00:28:19] Speaker A: I had a mess. [00:28:22] Speaker B: We are a mess, ain't we? [00:28:24] Speaker C: You're a mess. [00:28:24] Speaker B: We are a mess. [00:28:26] Speaker C: Anyway. Yeah, we're all broken. [00:28:28] Speaker A: I had a. [00:28:30] Speaker C: You're a mess. Broken. [00:28:32] Speaker B: I'm a broken mess twice over. And, you know, sitting in shambles. I mean, we all are the grace of God. And that's what's. And that's the beautiful part of it, is there is grace. [00:28:42] Speaker C: And that's what keeps a lot of people away from accepting Christ. [00:28:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:49] Speaker B: Because they're going to church or anything else. [00:28:51] Speaker C: Because everybody thinks they're good at a good person, you know? Well, I had. That's the problem. [00:28:57] Speaker A: I had a long conversation with someone the other day. I won't go into great detail because they didn't sign a waiver saying it was okay for me to share everything. It was a really healthy conversation. I really enjoyed it. And they don't share the faith, but it was a very open, honest, respectful conversation both ways. And a whole lot of the questions they were asking me were, would do. You know, someone said that if this happens, this person goes to hell. And somebody said that if you do this and without getting into every single granular detail of it, it was all stuff that at some point I said, these aren't salvation issues. I don't think that what you were told is correct. But even if I did, me thinking that wouldn't make me go to hell or you me go to heaven and you go to hell. Like, these are not salvation issues. [00:29:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:44] Speaker A: And it was like, I mean, this is a two hour conversation. I bet an hour of it minimum was on doctrine debates. [00:29:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:53] Speaker A: What happens in the afterlife? What happens to the. In this obscure 1 in 10,000 scenario? What happened to this? [00:29:59] Speaker B: Yes. [00:30:00] Speaker A: One random character. [00:30:01] Speaker B: What about the one whopped here? [00:30:03] Speaker A: You know, and some of the stuff that they were telling me, you know, they had been taught, I'm thinking that's just wrong. I'm pretty sure that's just wrong. Like you're sitting here bad, you know, I don't understand how God could do this. I don't think he does. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that you've been misled on that one. You know, and they're just. And the more I thought about it. Let's go back to our, you know, the, the once. The other 167 key phrase, it's not complicated. And it's turned. There are so many. I know this is like an ongoing theme. Several shows in a row now debating these things, but it's really just popping up over and over and over. [00:30:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:39] Speaker A: It seems like. Right. I keep seeing these people that are. They've turned away from church because there was one person or one group or one church that came up with this one crazy doctrine idea that I don't even think is biblical and they've decided based on that God's crazy. Well, if they were right, if, if they were telling the truth, God might be crazy, but he's not. That's. [00:31:01] Speaker C: You made that up. [00:31:02] Speaker A: Yeah, but it's, it's just, it's frustrating sometimes. And another thing from that I was going to bring up from that is I hear this all the time and I know why we do it. But what are your thoughts, I guess on when somebody asks a Christian a question? We're really quick to say, well, this is the truth. Because the Bible says so. [00:31:23] Speaker C: Right. [00:31:24] Speaker A: This is what the Bible says about this. Homosexuality is wrong. Well, how do you know the homosexuality is wrong? Well, because. And then we quote the verse that says homosexuality is wrong or whatever. Well, verses do not know it. I know that it's. I know it's in there. And I'm guessing. [00:31:38] Speaker C: Yeah, there is. [00:31:39] Speaker A: That's just one. [00:31:39] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:31:40] Speaker A: Genesis. I mean, it's. [00:31:41] Speaker B: You can go Genesis, but I'd go First Corinthians. [00:31:44] Speaker C: I would go, yeah, Genesis. I mean, you. If you talked about Sodom and Gomorrah, that was just One area of Sodom and Gomorrah practicing. [00:31:52] Speaker A: Well, and frankly, homosexuality wasn't the only thing they were doing. No, no, that was wrong with that scenario. [00:32:00] Speaker B: That was one of the big ones. But it was doing plenty of. [00:32:02] Speaker C: It was. It was just. It was total chaos. But like being said Corinthians is where you will find that. And a lot of times we think, you know, Solomon Gomorrah was destroyed because of homosexuality. That's because that's what we read. And that's the situation. But that's not how I think. I think it was destroyed by more. [00:32:25] Speaker B: I think it's what we infer when we read. [00:32:27] Speaker C: Yes, right. [00:32:28] Speaker B: Well. [00:32:29] Speaker A: And I think I could come up with. With a dozen. [00:32:32] Speaker C: Rebellion. [00:32:33] Speaker A: It's not to say that Solomon Gamora, that story doesn't tell us that homosexuality is wrong. I'm just saying that there's about a dozen other things in there that might have been what actually brought the wrath on besides. [00:32:42] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, right. That's what I'm trying to say. It wasn't just. And that was part of it. That doesn't mean everybody was practicing it. Yeah, it could have been, but they were doing a lot more than just that. [00:32:53] Speaker A: But I think in some. In some things, especially probably more New Testament, when you start getting into, you know, when we start quoting the Bible, we do hearing or believing comes by the word of God. I got that part. But sometimes we only use scripture to have conversation to prove our point. Yeah. And when you're using scripture to prove your point to someone who doesn't believe in scripture, you're getting into a circular argument. And I will say this about the conversation I had the other day. I've been watching a lot of these things here lately on, you know, apologetics and stuff like that. Boy, I was armed for bear for this. I was ready to go. And I'm. I've been sitting chomping at the big and to use some of this stuff, you know, and then I'm just dropping bombs, I think, and they're just getting shot right back down. And it finally got to a point where I'm just like, you know what? Even if in this conversation they got to a point where they said, you know what? I believe you're right. All I would be gaining. All they would have is intellectual consent. It's still not spiritual. But I think that that's exactly how we evangelize a lot of. We turn evangelism into a debate and we're trying to score more points than them to where we can finally prove to them that we're right and they're wrong. [00:34:05] Speaker B: Right. [00:34:06] Speaker A: And even if we do win the debate, that's all we've done is win a debate. I agree. And I'm just wondering, am I the only one that thinks that? [00:34:14] Speaker C: I guess. [00:34:15] Speaker A: Or is that something that we do? [00:34:16] Speaker B: See, I think you're absolutely correct. It is. I mean, we have turned it into debate 101. [00:34:22] Speaker A: Everybody wants to be right. [00:34:24] Speaker B: Yes. [00:34:24] Speaker A: You know, that's the problem. We want to prove we're right and they're wrong. [00:34:28] Speaker C: I've never seen a debate where the person that did not believe in God or did not believe in Christianity ever repented. [00:34:37] Speaker A: I've seen debates on any subject where the loser believed that they lost. Yeah. Generally. [00:34:43] Speaker C: Well, yeah, the line that comes to my mind was. Was Trump, that one, that debate with him and Harris, he looked bad, but he walked around like, man, I won this. [00:34:56] Speaker B: Well, you got to do that in politics. [00:34:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:57] Speaker B: Yeah. But it was never going to concede victory. [00:34:59] Speaker C: You are. You are. I mean, I'm. [00:35:01] Speaker A: Yeah, you guys. [00:35:02] Speaker C: She was just more polished. Polished. And she was off. And he just. He's gonna say what he's gonna say. [00:35:13] Speaker B: Very little self control. He looked. No, no joke. But. But you're exactly right. Too many times we. We make evangelism debating and winning a debate and everything else when it's really just sharing your story and. And we put so much pressure on. I got to win this person. No, what you got to do is you got to share your story. [00:35:33] Speaker A: That's it. [00:35:33] Speaker B: Leave the results to God. Share your story. Make disciples, rather than got to win somebody. [00:35:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:40] Speaker B: And I think that's a big, big part of it. And then there was another part in your question. It was something else. It wasn't just that. Wasn't just that. You remember what it was. [00:35:49] Speaker A: I don't remember what it was. [00:35:50] Speaker B: Oh, man. I'll think of it in a minute. [00:35:53] Speaker C: All right. When you do this part out. [00:35:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:55] Speaker A: Just. That's totally fine. [00:35:58] Speaker B: Tell you, man. [00:35:59] Speaker A: But using the Bible with. [00:36:02] Speaker B: That's it. [00:36:02] Speaker A: That's about it. [00:36:03] Speaker B: Yep, that's it. [00:36:04] Speaker A: I think. [00:36:05] Speaker B: I think one of the things that we have to be careful. That's exactly what I was thinking. You know, I think we use it as a crutch too much. And in this room, we're okay with this. It is okay for us in this room to say the Bible says. Because I know we've got three born again believers, and I got three guys that believe that. What The Bible is the Bible. When you're talking to the world, they could care less what the Bible says. And so what you've got to be able to do, and this is the key point is, okay, so they've got a different source of authority because ours is the Bible, theirs is not. So how you've got to be able to do. And this is where knowing the Bible code will help because. And what I mean by that is, you know it so well that you can relate it in a practical, very intelligent, slash common sense way that. Oh, it does make sense. Oh, it, you know, and it, sometimes it can be as simple as a proverb that, you know, there's a verse in the Bible about that. It kind of helped to see that, you know, the Bible does know what it's talking about. Yeah, I've done that numerous times with people. To be able to relate the Bible to them to say, you know, that's in the Bible, you reap what you sow, or you, you know, there's all kinds of little sayings in there that you can say that's in the Bible. [00:37:26] Speaker C: What's the next verse on that one? [00:37:29] Speaker B: Be not deceived, God is not mine. [00:37:31] Speaker C: Well, that's one of them. Yeah. [00:37:33] Speaker B: Well, you, you read what you saw. [00:37:34] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, it mentions that verse. I mean, that's mentioned twice, but I'm not sure which two verses. I think one's in Galatians. I don't know. [00:37:44] Speaker B: It is Galatians 6. [00:37:45] Speaker C: Okay, okay. [00:37:46] Speaker A: Is there, is there an example you guys can think of from any of the Gospels where Jesus rebukes a sin other than self righteousness, hypocrisy, judgment of others, those types of things. I'm thinking, okay, woman at the. Well, he says, I mean, he calls, he, he acknowledges her sin in a little bit of a sarcastic way and to the point it kind of way, but I wouldn't call that even necessarily a rebuke. It was almost, it was in a way proving who he was to her. And I'm not, I definitely am not saying he was condoning it, but yeah. [00:38:29] Speaker C: I don't think it was a review. [00:38:30] Speaker A: Same thing with the woman in adultery. [00:38:32] Speaker B: Well, that's what that was going to be. My, my next question is, okay, so what about John 8. [00:38:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:38] Speaker B: Where he says, I don't condemn you either. Go and send no more. [00:38:41] Speaker A: Right? Go and send no more. Okay, now go and sin no more. [00:38:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:38:44] Speaker A: Means that she has sinned, technically. I mean, that could have been said to anybody. [00:38:48] Speaker B: But I think he was calling, calling it out. [00:38:51] Speaker A: Right. [00:38:51] Speaker B: Of, hey, it was, I mean no more. [00:38:53] Speaker A: Yeah, but I'm comparing that to the la. The tongue lashings the Pharisees got. [00:38:59] Speaker B: You know, that was the biggest thing he preached against while he was here. [00:39:03] Speaker A: Right. [00:39:03] Speaker B: Or is against that sin. [00:39:05] Speaker A: Yeah, but are there other. Can you think of examples that he can. That he rebuked? Other than those two I know of. Are there others you can think of where he openly rebuked common sinners as opposed to the Pharisees? [00:39:20] Speaker B: There is a passage and I'm trying to think of it and we may have to Google this. Kenny. [00:39:25] Speaker C: Got it right here. [00:39:26] Speaker B: Yeah, there is a passage. Can you help me to remember when he said, go and send no more unless something worse happens to you. It's not the woman at the whale, but it's almost something to that degree that I'm trying to remember what the background is for that story. [00:39:43] Speaker A: It was a healing. [00:39:45] Speaker B: Yes. Unless something else happened or it's going to come back to you. And I can't remember exactly what he was getting at there. That's the only thing I'm thinking of. John 5:14. This is the healing of the man at the temple. He's blind. And see what John 5:14 says. He heals him. And this is the one where they go and ask his parents. They go and ask. You know that that is one of the most interesting healings. That is the only thing that I would. And I don't know that that is necessarily a rebuke like you're asking. [00:40:21] Speaker A: Behold, you have become. Well, do not sin anymore so that nothing worse happens to you. [00:40:25] Speaker B: I don't know that that is the same thing. That's the only thing I was just. Yeah, that's the only. In my mind that was the only thing I was hearing that. Okay. Would be remotely like you're saying. [00:40:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:36] Speaker B: I don't know. Thinking about the amount of transfiguration. Then he says, help thou my unbelief. But he doesn't. I mean he gives. He gives the disciples kind of a tongue lashing from time to time. He does. Lack of faith. Yeah, he does. So I think that would be probably. Probably number two or three on the list, but nowhere near self righteous. [00:40:55] Speaker A: Okay. Self righteousness, lack of faith. [00:40:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:58] Speaker A: Judgmental quite falls under self righteousness. Pride falls under self righteousness. It all falls under. [00:41:04] Speaker B: But I would dare say that that other one would be when he gets on his disciples for their lack of faith. Okay. [00:41:10] Speaker A: Oh ye. [00:41:10] Speaker B: A little faith. You know, why did you doubt? [00:41:13] Speaker A: So I think that. I'm not trying to summarize Jesus in three words, by any means. But if I were going to say, okay, I believe, if I could, if I were going to summarize the three key teachings of Jesus. [00:41:24] Speaker B: Okay. [00:41:25] Speaker A: I think does not. He does not like self righteousness, pride, arrogance, judging others. [00:41:31] Speaker B: Humility is key. Yeah. [00:41:34] Speaker A: Wants us to love one another. These aren't necessarily any order, but love one another, love God, love one another and have faith. [00:41:42] Speaker B: Right. [00:41:42] Speaker A: I think that's aside from the gospel itself. I mean, Jesus's life in his death, burial, resurrection, maybe provide prophecies. A lot of. There was a lot in there. But I think if I'm looking as a playbook to live off of, based on Jesus's teachings and things that he, that you can tell are really important to Jesus. Don't be self righteous, love God, love one another, have faith in God. [00:42:05] Speaker B: Okay. [00:42:06] Speaker A: Those would be the big three. I think so. And I'm thinking about. And again, I don't want to make this sound like I'm trying to downplay any of the other 62 books in the Bible, but the other 62 books in the Bible, we elaborate and we get into some of the weed, not the weeds, but we get into a more granular level on what some of these sins mean and we flesh some of those things out. Okay, totally cool with that. And we need that. But I think that in evangelism we might want to think about following Jesus's playbook on that a little bit more and focusing on those, those areas, self righteousness, love and faith. And maybe not try to win the argument based on Corinthians, Second Corinthians, Chapter 7 or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, I think we really go, use your, your phrase. We go to seed on one verse. [00:42:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:56] Speaker A: In Leviticus or Ruth or Galatians, and we use that as our big swinging stick to, you know, our big hammer that we're going to hit with and in doing so, totally forget and sometimes even contradict the key points of Jesus's overarching message. [00:43:22] Speaker B: I think you're exactly right. [00:43:24] Speaker C: No, Kenny, I don't have nothing to add. [00:43:27] Speaker B: Well, I think what, what I would do is I would also, you know, just kind of fleshing out your argument a little bit about those three, three things he taught about. You said humility, faith and love. Then I thought about Corinthians, faith, hope and love. But I think you're right. Faith, hope and humility. Faith, humility and love. Well, if you really think about it, humility and faith goes to love God with all your heart, mind Body and soul. Humility says I'm not the one in charge. Humility says God's the one who's in charge. So that's loving God with all my heart, all my mind, all my strength, all my soul. And then you said the other one, love, love others. And so that love of God creates that. So I think it's amazing how the more you think about it and all the different things that we unpack and all the different things that we try to define at times always keeps coming back to those two markers. Love God, love others. [00:44:22] Speaker A: Well, and then also faith ties into that too, because it takes faith to know that God's in control. [00:44:28] Speaker B: That's it. Or I'm going to love him with. [00:44:30] Speaker C: All faith and trust. [00:44:31] Speaker A: Faith and trust, yeah. [00:44:32] Speaker B: Because how does faith reveal itself? Well, faith without works is dead. So faith has got to have life and it's got to have works if it's going to be alive. So there's going to be some actions. [00:44:44] Speaker A: Is it a fair. This is very, very off the. On the fly. I may regret, I may edit this out, but I don't have to regret anything else in your anxiety. But it almost seems to me like the Gospels were God's message to non believers. The other 62 books were the message for the believers to help deepen our faith and to deepen our, you know, to, to help us go a little bit deeper. But I think if we're looking at evangelism, we need to think about the Gospels as the, as the leading edge of that sword, so to speak. Because everything else is more like, okay, once we're here, this is your playbook. Once you're in the door, so to speak. Maybe. But it's. The Gospels are hitting the high notes for the non believers. [00:45:28] Speaker C: I would say that's true. I would agree on the first three, John, but John is a little bit different. He comes out a different way. [00:45:40] Speaker B: But I still think it was written for those that John 20:31. [00:45:45] Speaker C: These things are written, everybody believe. [00:45:47] Speaker B: Yeah, well, but these things are written so that you may believe. So that's geared towards the non believer. I think the Gospels are that way. I think to some degree you could almost make the argument the book of Acts kind of sort of is, but not really because I think the book of Acts is also written for the church, but it also helps us to see. And maybe what I would submit for your consideration is the best thing to do as far as evangelism, if you want to have that conversation of. Okay, so what did the early church Fathers, that is the book of Acts. What did they use? What did they share? And if you look, it was all about what Christ did. He was the one who came from heaven. He was the exalted one. Stephen said, I opened up my eyes and looked towards heaven and there he is seated on the right hand of God the Father. I mean, if you look, their witnessing was straight up. Here's what Christ did. [00:46:42] Speaker A: Well, the vast majority of the New Testament is the apostles writing to the Church. [00:46:49] Speaker B: That's right. [00:46:49] Speaker A: Right. They didn't have, they weren't using Paul's letter to the Corinthians to convert people. They were writing that to one another. [00:46:58] Speaker B: But, but now, case in point, part of the letter of Corinthians could be. In fact, 1 Corinthians 15 is probably one of the best chapters on proving the resurrection. So if you really want to talk to someone about did the resurrection happen? Well, 1 Corinthians 15 needs to be one of your bullets in your chamber because there's proof at the proof at the proof. But again, what I'm. And you're right. You're exactly right. So what was it that was written to the non believer? Because you could even say the Old Testament. Well, that's not written for the non believer. The Old Testament was written for the Jews or whoever that book of warning was aimed towards. Like, for instance. Well, no, because even Obadiah and Nahuman, that wasn't necessarily for the Ninevites as much as it was for the Jews to know. Hey, I'm about to do this. [00:47:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, it goes back full circle what I brought up earlier on. I mean, if I'm talking to my, my golf swing guy and he says, you got to work on your sequencing, you know your sequencing is off. Yeah, I know exactly what he's talking about. [00:48:02] Speaker C: Right. Okay. [00:48:03] Speaker A: If I'm watching you swing or whatever and I'm saying your sequencing is off, you're going to look at me. [00:48:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:07] Speaker A: Tell me what my sequencing is supposed to be. Be, you know? [00:48:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Do you know what that means? [00:48:11] Speaker A: Well, Tony, Rob. But what's. What, what's correct timing? What does it look like? How do you fix it? How do you know? [00:48:17] Speaker C: I mean, I don't know, but I. [00:48:19] Speaker B: Mean, yeah, I mean, we know what a sequence is. [00:48:22] Speaker A: Right. [00:48:22] Speaker B: But what does it mean in my, in a golf. When he's telling me, I'm just like pointing it out that the average person would not know? [00:48:29] Speaker A: Well, I mean, when he tells me my sequencing is off, for me personally, I know that that means my Hips are getting too far ahead and I've got to slow my. I got to catch my torso up a little bit. But even that, that sequencing being off for me is going to be different than another good player. That's. [00:48:42] Speaker B: My hands might be too far. Right. [00:48:44] Speaker A: So it, that terminology, it's not going to land with somebody who's just picking up the game. And when we try to use that terminology. I'm not. I never meant to. To make it sound like I'm saying don't use the Bible when you're talking to people about Jesus. That would be a foolish thing to say. [00:49:01] Speaker B: Faith. Come to hear and hear my word of God. [00:49:03] Speaker C: You said that. [00:49:04] Speaker B: Right, right, right. I just, I just think that too many times we, we hide behind the fortress or we hide behind the. The Magic 8 Ball, if you will, of the Bible says it. [00:49:16] Speaker A: Yeah, the Bible says so. So I'm right. Okay, that may be true, but they don't believe. [00:49:21] Speaker C: Right. [00:49:21] Speaker B: You're exactly right. The Bible says that you're. It's true. [00:49:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:24] Speaker B: But for the. If you're trying to talk to someone who has. Doesn't buy into what the Bible is says. No. Who cares what the Bible says? [00:49:32] Speaker A: Right. [00:49:33] Speaker B: That doesn't mean anything to me. [00:49:35] Speaker A: That's right. And you're almost moving ahead to the fourth or fifth class without teaching fundamentals. [00:49:41] Speaker B: And you got to be cognizant about that. And I think it just. When we go to talk to folks, you just need to know that, that, that that argument does not always hold that we. I just think it's a weak argument and we, we. We make it a good one. But for us in here it's great we one. But out there it's a terrible argument. [00:50:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know. I think that's a big part of where we can struggle with evangelism sometimes is using. It's just forgetting that hierarchy, if you will, or that order of the ways to approach things. I mean, you've got to get. The gospel itself is incredibly simple and beautiful. I mean it. And then we turn it and it gets a little bit more granular as you get into the rest of the Bible. And there's parts of the Bible that can get, get very, very detailed and. But when you start leading off with cherry picking this one line that happens to help you hopefully prove your point or whatever you're. [00:50:37] Speaker C: A lot of times we witnessed people were condemned. Really? It sounds like it. But I have a question. Why did Jesus say go and send them more when he knew he would? Why is I mean, I just wonder why you would say that. [00:50:54] Speaker B: I don't think he's meaning there. Don't. You can't ever sin. Yeah. Don't ever get two, two pieces of cake when you should only eat one. I don't know that he's getting into the, into the details of that as much as he is. Hey, you know, this is. You've been, You've been given a great, great gift, so live it type thing. [00:51:17] Speaker C: So it's not a way blunt. He's not saying. It might be me saying. [00:51:23] Speaker B: He's not saying, as soon as you lie, you're going blind again. [00:51:26] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. But he's saying, try to walk right. [00:51:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:33] Speaker C: Don't sin no more, but do better, you know, or. [00:51:37] Speaker B: Well, and it is. Well, if you've been saved, you should live like a, Like I say. [00:51:44] Speaker C: I mean, you, you, you're still going to sin. But he was saying, and I can't think of. [00:51:51] Speaker B: He's not saying you got to be perfect or. [00:51:54] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I, I agree that. But place your wrath. Well, it must have been a phrase that they always say, go, shalom, go and send them more. I mean, it could have been something. I don't think so, but I don't know. [00:52:08] Speaker A: Well, I mean, send them. I mean, send. We've talked about this before. A lot of the reason that bad things happen after sin is because God knew something bad was going to happen. [00:52:18] Speaker B: If he did this. [00:52:19] Speaker A: That's why I told you not to do it. So it very. I mean, it could have just been just good general standing advice for someone going away. [00:52:27] Speaker C: When he says, be therefore perfect as your Father, which is in heaven, it's perfect. First of all, we can't be. But I'm taking that through the Holy Spirit, we can be true Him. [00:52:39] Speaker B: He never gives you a command. [00:52:40] Speaker C: He doesn't. Right. I think that's. I don't know if that's kind of like what that is, but I mean, I struggle with that. How can we, if, if the Father is the only one perfect and we have to be perfect as he is, how can we do that? [00:52:55] Speaker A: There you are. [00:52:56] Speaker C: We can only do it through his spirit. And when we're in his spirit, we are perfect and we get out of, out of the his will or it's spirit, that's when we fail. I don't think it's a. I mean, it's impossible and there's still grace. Yeah. [00:53:13] Speaker B: Even when we fail. [00:53:15] Speaker C: So we can be perfect. If Jesus says, be therefore perfect as. [00:53:23] Speaker B: Your Father in heaven, technically or actually. [00:53:27] Speaker C: Well, when I say. I don't know what you mean. I said we can be perfect, but we only can be perfect with the Holy Spirit through the Holy Spirit. [00:53:35] Speaker A: I think we can be perfect for snapshots of time. Well, yeah, for very small snapshots. [00:53:41] Speaker B: What I'm saying is. Well, maybe I should say legally or practically, because there is a difference. [00:53:47] Speaker C: I know there's a difference. [00:53:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:49] Speaker C: If we get out on. [00:53:51] Speaker B: I stand fully justified in Christ. [00:53:54] Speaker A: What is the word? [00:53:55] Speaker C: Yeah, that's what I think. So. [00:53:57] Speaker B: Okay. [00:53:58] Speaker C: But. [00:53:59] Speaker B: But now your other. What about practically? [00:54:02] Speaker C: That's one that we. That's when we get out. [00:54:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:54:07] Speaker C: And that's what I mean legally, it being with the Spirit. Because of the Holy Spirit. I am perfect in his eyes. [00:54:16] Speaker B: God looks at my life and he sees no sin, even though I know I'm a sinner. [00:54:20] Speaker C: But if you look at my life and you're. You're messed up. Yeah. No, so practically you're looking at. Practically. But spiritually, because of the Holy Spirit, because of the death of the cross, we are perfect. And I think that's what. It's good. [00:54:35] Speaker B: Well, I think it also means that. [00:54:37] Speaker A: I mean, we can be. [00:54:38] Speaker B: Yeah, but I think it's like we've said here. We use a phrase that kind of coins it. That helps to understand it. As a born again believer and as someone that's growing in Christ. I will not be sinless. Yeah, but I should sin less. [00:54:55] Speaker C: Well, that's practically. [00:54:56] Speaker B: That's what I'm saying. But I should sin less. [00:54:59] Speaker C: Yes, but that's. [00:54:59] Speaker B: And if I'm sinning less, then hopefully I'm becoming more and more like Christ. That the things that used to pull me aside, the things that used to have. I used to have a desire for. Yeah. That ain't the same. [00:55:13] Speaker C: But in his. But we're in Right standing. [00:55:16] Speaker B: Yeah, Already right standing. [00:55:17] Speaker A: You're made. [00:55:18] Speaker C: Right. And that's what I'm getting at. That we already are perfect in his sight. [00:55:26] Speaker B: I like to call that theologically. [00:55:28] Speaker C: Yes. [00:55:28] Speaker B: Or positionally is how it works. It's positional versus practical. Positional means I am. Here's who I am in Christ. But practically. [00:55:41] Speaker C: I'm not doing too well. [00:55:42] Speaker B: But this is the whole bit of where we find ourselves as Christians is the already and the not yet. [00:55:49] Speaker C: We get it. We can't get them together. [00:55:53] Speaker B: Yeah, you've got the already of. In my mind. My mind is set on things above. I'm already in heaven, but I've got to live it out. [00:56:02] Speaker C: Life doesn't Reflect it. [00:56:03] Speaker B: That's right. [00:56:04] Speaker C: That's what. Yeah, yeah. [00:56:07] Speaker B: And so I think that's where the conflict comes in, that we know who we're supposed to be. But if we're not living that way, then that creates all kinds of conflict, turmoil, and everything else for the child of God. Or at least it should come. It should generate conviction. [00:56:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:24] Speaker B: To where we're not comfortable with it. And that's where we should. You know, again, maybe that's what we've been talking about, but it's the already versus the not yet. [00:56:33] Speaker C: Yes, exactly. I mean, it took me years to figure out that verse really well, because I was looking at a. I was looking. [00:56:42] Speaker B: We just did it in five minutes. [00:56:43] Speaker C: I know, but it took me years. I understand what that was actually saying. [00:56:48] Speaker B: I'm just messing with money because. [00:56:52] Speaker C: I. [00:56:52] Speaker B: Mean, I'm struggling, but it is. [00:56:53] Speaker C: Can I be perfect? Why is Jesus saying that when I know I'm not perfect? [00:56:56] Speaker B: But it is deep. [00:56:57] Speaker C: Because I was looking at a different angle. [00:56:59] Speaker B: Yeah, but. But it is a. A standard. That is unreal. [00:57:03] Speaker C: But then, you know what you preached on. This is one of your good sermons. Maybe it was maybe not even one. [00:57:12] Speaker A: Of the average ones. [00:57:14] Speaker C: Maybe it was your last. [00:57:16] Speaker B: You remember the one in 22? [00:57:17] Speaker C: It was your last good serve. Yeah. That was three or four years ago. Yeah. [00:57:23] Speaker A: When you first got. [00:57:23] Speaker B: You did that one. It was pretty good, you know. [00:57:25] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. [00:57:26] Speaker B: The last good one, I think. 23, October 23rd. [00:57:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:30] Speaker B: Yeah. If memory serves. Correct. [00:57:31] Speaker C: I remember that one. Thank you. I haven't been remembering much of your sermons. That last one was. Oh, man, that was a good one. [00:57:40] Speaker A: And. Yeah. [00:57:41] Speaker C: Yeah, you had. You nailed it. [00:57:43] Speaker B: Oh, man. [00:57:44] Speaker A: Good point. [00:57:45] Speaker B: I was going to say, have you got time? [00:57:46] Speaker A: Yeah, we got about a minute or two. [00:57:49] Speaker B: I have done a devotion the last two days with different people. And one of the things that I wanted to just share, and I think it's something that every time I've shared it with someone, everybody was nodding their head like, ooh, that's true. I don't know if you've ever had to deal with people that I would call, well, there's a new phrase out. I didn't know this until Renee told me Sunday. When I told her, I said I had a con as. I don't know if y' all have ever done this before. You ever gone into somewhere. You're so excited. You're ready, you're. You're just looking forward to a great day of something, whether it's Sunday morning, whether it's something else. And then you run into somebody and boy, they can just literally suck the life out of you. You know, it's almost like if you were a phone Battery, you're on 100 and all of a sudden they start talking and that meter just goes on down to where it's on. In fact, it's red and it's saying flash and saying low battery warning. I mean that's, that's, that's. There are some people that are like that. [00:58:47] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I'm depressed. [00:58:48] Speaker B: Yes, I talked to Renee about that and I said, you met anybody like that? And she said, yeah, they're called energy vampires. And I said, they're called what? And she said, energy vampires. They suck the energy or they suck the life right out of you? And I was like, like, good gracious. And so I got, I got into that. I told her, I said, I've got to do a devotion on this. And because I've, you know, I'm sitting down with the elders on Monday and then I got the staff on Tuesday, so I did, did a devotion on it. And one of the things that, that energy suckers or energy vampires, you know, they, they're self absorbed. They. Everything's a crisis. [00:59:27] Speaker C: Oh. [00:59:27] Speaker B: I mean, even if it's just one small thing, their emotional level is just to where, oh my goodness, it's a crisis and it's your problem and you got to do it. They always need reassurance. They rarely, if ever are thankful. Those are people that suck the life out of you. And then I think one of the last things is they're not very self aware. And what do I mean by that is think about it this way. A vampire can't see himself in the mirror. That's the lore. Well, well, self. This person's so not self aware. They don't even see themselves as being. I'm sucking the life out. And then one of the last conversations that I had is they overanalyze everything to where you're almost afraid I'm not going to say another word because it's just going to be another. [01:00:14] Speaker C: I'll have a time. [01:00:15] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's just sucking the life out of you. So how do I handle. How do I handle people like that? Because here's the thing, they're not going away. And no matter how hard you try to go on the other side of the street, when you see them coming, you can't avoid them. [01:00:29] Speaker C: Yeah. How do you. [01:00:31] Speaker B: I think there's a, there's a passage. [01:00:33] Speaker C: I've had I know what you're talking about. [01:00:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:36] Speaker C: You get through with them, all you want to do is just go take a nap. [01:00:40] Speaker B: No, I'm ready to. I mean, it's almost. Because why are we even here? I mean, ain't no need to be in church today. God's dead. You know the way, the way the conversation just went with this cat. So, so here's what I, I, I just decided. Lord, how do I handle things like that? Colossians 3, 12, 15 is a great passage to go to. Colossians 12, 3, 15. It talks about, let us then put on a heart of compassion, kindness, gentleness. And if you read that, you'll see the fruit of the Spirit. Then it's got forbearing one another, forgiving one another. And Paul even goes. And he puts that dad gum claim on it, that it makes it hard when we want to forgive, just as God has forgiven you. So remember your own grace. When you're dealing with these people who need an extra measure of grace, and remember that God was patient with you. You be patient with them. I think also we need to have the fragrance of Christ. That's verse 14, where it says, let love be the bond of unity. Love one another. And what is it that is the fragrance of Christ? It is love. And then last but not least, we need to walk in the fullness of the Spirit. When you go to verse 14 and 15 and 16, it says, Let the peace of Christ rule in your heart. Let the word of God or the word of Christ richly dwell. And so those, those pictures right there. And I wish it was easy as, and I know there's some things you can make boundaries and do this and do this, but, but really, when it comes down to the spiritual part of it, I wish there was something I could tell you that's easy. It all comes down to. You got to be walking in the Spirit. [01:02:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:15] Speaker C: Okay, well, you're asking a lot. [01:02:20] Speaker A: Not the Spirit. [01:02:22] Speaker C: No, I mean, but, but you're right. [01:02:24] Speaker B: Walking in the Spirit. Spirit is. And that's, and that's it. That's the whole gist of it. And how much of he, not how much of, of how much of him of yourself does the Holy Spirit have? That's the key. And so as hard as it is, that's it. [01:02:39] Speaker C: I mean, I mean, I know what you're saying. It's like, how much more can I take? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had, I had Lord, shoot me now. Yeah, I had that. I had that the other day. I was so exhausted, I had to go Take a nap. [01:02:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:54] Speaker C: I mean, it just. It just. [01:02:56] Speaker B: Just. But it wasn't your. Your spouse or nobody like that. [01:02:58] Speaker A: No, no, hope not. [01:03:00] Speaker B: But I think I know your spouse is refreshing. There are some people that are refreshing. And that's what we need to be is, man, we. We bring on a. [01:03:10] Speaker C: A. A You. [01:03:12] Speaker B: You love talking to people like that because they build you up, they encourage you. They. They are there for you. [01:03:18] Speaker C: You. [01:03:19] Speaker B: And you just. They light up a room. That. That's what I want to be. [01:03:22] Speaker C: That's char. That's charisma right there. [01:03:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Or. Or the joy of the Lord. [01:03:28] Speaker C: Yes. Yeah. [01:03:28] Speaker B: I mean, it doesn't always have to be charisma because some people are like that. They aren't the most charismatic. [01:03:34] Speaker C: Well, I wouldn't. Charismatic and charisma are the same. [01:03:39] Speaker A: No. [01:03:39] Speaker C: Well, you know, I mean, I think. [01:03:42] Speaker A: Y' all debate that one on your own. [01:03:46] Speaker B: All right. [01:03:46] Speaker C: You know what much? It goes back to one thing. [01:03:50] Speaker B: People's crazy. Yeah. [01:03:51] Speaker C: Well, yeah, pretty much covers it. Exactly what I said. [01:03:56] Speaker A: Every seven. [01:03:58] Speaker C: Seven times is 28 days. Seven days a week. So. And leap years every four. So seven times four is 28. Every 28 years. A fifth Sunday generally happens every 28 years. [01:04:09] Speaker A: I'm sure it said generally it happens every 20. [01:04:12] Speaker B: Feels like. [01:04:13] Speaker A: I don't think monkey math in there where. [01:04:14] Speaker C: Well, they just tell you the use has happened. [01:04:16] Speaker B: So that's every 28 years, like I said. [01:04:18] Speaker C: And what's the next one? [01:04:20] Speaker A: Real quick. Real quick. [01:04:21] Speaker B: 2060. [01:04:22] Speaker C: And the next one. [01:04:23] Speaker B: That would be 2088. [01:04:26] Speaker C: You're right. [01:04:27] Speaker A: There we go. [01:04:27] Speaker B: 2088. That'd be 100 years after my graduation from high school. [01:04:31] Speaker A: Thinking you won't make that one. [01:04:33] Speaker B: I don't think I'll make that reunion. I ain't made any other ones. Watch. [01:04:40] Speaker C: Six. What? [01:04:41] Speaker B: I put in about four. Three or four. [01:04:43] Speaker C: Three or four. [01:04:44] Speaker B: Might want to look that up. [01:04:45] Speaker C: That wasn't really my point. [01:04:47] Speaker B: Yeah, no, no, I know that's your favorite passage. [01:04:50] Speaker C: Yeah. But I was trying to really think of what was. What was it? I was trying to think of what was before that. And I thought that was close. [01:04:58] Speaker B: Bear one of those burdens and thereby fulfill the law of Christ. [01:05:01] Speaker C: Okay, that's us. [01:05:03] Speaker B: I don't know what question that answer. I think it was just you. [01:05:08] Speaker C: Trying to refresh myself. Yeah. [01:05:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:10] Speaker C: There you go. [01:05:10] Speaker B: I'm glad I could help you. [01:05:11] Speaker C: Thank you very much. Your one good work is done for today.