April 16, 2026

01:25:19

Great Faith...Great Mistakes

Great Faith...Great Mistakes
The Other 167
Great Faith...Great Mistakes

Apr 16 2026 | 01:25:19

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Show Notes

There are a lot of things about Christianity that I believe are subtly misunderstood, even sometimes amongst well meaning believers. And that's OK; God's ways are not our ways, so it's understandable that we might not "get it" sometimes. 

But one of those that I really missed for a long time was the idea that the men of great faith must have lived very righteous lives. I didn't know David had his mistress' husband killed to cover his sin. I didn't know Paul murdered the first Christians and was still the chief of sinners years after his conversion. I didn't know Peter struggled accepting Jesus' plans. And I didn't know John was so competitive!

Neither David, Paul, Peter or John had a thing to do with saving me. But misunderstanding them caused me to misunderstand Jesus. I thought having a strong faith would keep me from making mistakes. But honestly, I think my stronger faith might have even made me more prone to them at times. 

I didn't know Jesus was OK with His followers making mistakes. Sure, I knew He forgave all past sins, as long as you didn't make any more. Go and sin no more, right?! 

But I've learned that while Jesus gives you the option and the desire to not make mistakes, He knows we won't always do it. But I've also learned that He already forgave those too, and has been working them together for good from the start.   

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Episode Transcript

[00:00:02] Speaker A: I could be a Samson, or I could be a Peter. Not thinking. I can be Paul Prideful. I mean, they all have my characteristics. [00:00:13] Speaker B: I can see their downfalls in themselves. [00:00:15] Speaker C: It's funny, too, if you were to ask me. So for the longest time, I had read the Gospels, Genesis and probably the Ten Commandments. And through Genesis, I was thinking, yeah, I appreciate Abraham because he was really messed up, made a lot of really bad decisions, but he had strong faith. I can relate to that. And then as I read the rest of the Old Testament, I realized he's just like the first person that did that. But the entire Old Testament is full of that same pattern. Great faith, great mistakes. Rinse and repeat over and over and over again. [00:00:43] Speaker B: And I think that's the beauty of it is, look, God ain't expecting us to be perfect because we won't be. [00:00:52] Speaker A: When you don't know what to do, you try to trust the Lord. Then you, you know, then you do trust the Lord. So. [00:01:04] Speaker B: Because what do you do? You see, that's the thing. You don't know anything else but to trust. [00:01:09] Speaker A: Right. And that's. That's how. That's what. [00:01:11] Speaker B: And those are sometimes the best times to be. [00:01:13] Speaker A: Well, I remember you had one. Well, you had one. I remember is when you were doing funerals. But the other one, it was the. And it was good. Both of them were good. The time that you couldn't prepare. [00:01:25] Speaker B: Right. [00:01:26] Speaker A: Was a very good sermon. And. But the other one was when you didn't know what to say when you did the sermon or spoke at the Avisboro Church. [00:01:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Just show up. And I found the more that you dependent upon the Lord, that's the key. And that's really. But at the same time, there's nothing wrong with being prepared. [00:01:53] Speaker A: No, but at all. You're right at all. But unlike you, you were trying to prepare, but nothing was clicking. [00:02:03] Speaker B: Well, that just comes from your Bible study. So in a way, you are prepared in the fact of you've studied the Scriptures, you memorize the Scripture, you may not be as prepared for that moment because you hadn't studied all week for a sermon. At the same time, you've hidden that word in your heart so that the Holy Spirit, like I said, I use the illustration of if you're in a spiritual battle or you're struggling to say what to say, and the Holy Spirit is trying to help you, and he goes to your arsenal of Bible verses. And all you got, John 3:16, it's in there. That ain't good. [00:02:32] Speaker A: And it's a good feeling. [00:02:33] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. [00:02:35] Speaker A: Wow. I mean, that's. [00:02:37] Speaker B: Thank you, Lord. That's the feeling. [00:02:38] Speaker A: Yeah. We don't know what to do. You depend on the. Depend on the Lord. That's what we do. Right. And so get down to the moral story is if you don't know what to do, you know what we always do depend on the Lord. [00:02:56] Speaker B: If you don't know what to do or you do know what to do, just depend on the Lord. [00:03:00] Speaker A: Well, it's harder to depend on the Lord when you know what you're going to do. That's just sometimes you lean on. [00:03:06] Speaker B: That's why we get through a lot of problems sometimes. [00:03:07] Speaker C: You lean? [00:03:08] Speaker A: Yep. I mean, I think for us to really depend on the Lord, we really have to either be going into trial or coming out of it. Sometimes I would say, you know, best. When we depend on him the most. Well, the most, then we get lax. [00:03:23] Speaker C: Yeah, there's a little balance there too. We talk. We could rename the show Balance at this point. We talk about balance all the time. But. But that's something. I was praying on something this week. That's not that big of a deal really. But it's one of those things that I want to see God and all of my decisions, whether they seem big or not. And there's part of me that thinks that he's up there on the. On the throne thinking, kid, I got way bigger things to think about than giving you guidance on this one little thing. But at the same time, I know he wants me to include him in everything that I do. So it's, you know, there's some, some balance there too. I don't ever want to do anything really on my own. I can mess up the tiniest little things on my own. [00:04:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:04:03] Speaker C: But you know, at the same time, not, not everything is a life changing, you know, decision. But still consult with him on. On everything. [00:04:12] Speaker B: And I think that's the thing is. And sometimes when I hear that, you know, I get it. You know, and I think what we do is we, we prescribe to God human, human limitations. [00:04:23] Speaker A: Right? [00:04:24] Speaker B: Yeah. I. Look, I ain't going to bother the man. Cause he's got enough on him. And I can take care of this. No, that's what we do. If you don't want to talk to somebody because you know, they got people, tell them outside. I didn't want to bother you about it. Talking to me. I didn't want to bother you about it and tell you, you know, I got my. I got a knee Replacement next week. I didn't want to bother you about it because I know you'd come up there and you got enough going on. Okay. That's human limitations. You're. You're trying to say. All right, for me, Ben, I know you got too much going on. Don't worry about me. I got it. Well, God isn't human. And nor is he limited. And nor does he say, I can't handle that problem today. So I, when I read a passage like 1st Peter 5:7, cast all your cares upon him, because cares of you cast all. Not. Not the big ones, not the middle sized and above. No, it's all. And so I think that's part of what we need to make sure that we, you know, that we don't somehow try to limit him or think that he can't handle it. [00:05:23] Speaker C: Well, another slightly different var. Even if. Let's take what I just said there. Let me rephrase it. What you said is true. We sometimes put limitations on. Which is silly. We know he's. And. Right. But even a different way I could look at. I was thinking about this with Gabe. Sometimes Gabe's probably the worst for it. Recent Christian, not so much. But Gabe's always asked me, what should I do about this, what should I do about that? [00:05:46] Speaker B: And it. [00:05:47] Speaker C: It could be dad showed a pop tartar sausage biscuit for breakfast. I'm like, I don't care. Neither one of them are that good for you. Just get one care. And sometimes I wonder if like maybe [00:05:56] Speaker B: better than the other. Yeah. Yeah. [00:05:57] Speaker C: And sometimes I'm wondering if I'm making this a bigger deal than it really is. But at the same time, sometimes those little things can be big decisions down the road. You never know. [00:06:05] Speaker B: And, and you saying that, you know, just a word of advice, you never want to shun it as, hey, okay, you asking me, I'll help you. But. Because there are going to be big decisions that are really going to matter, that's when you do want them to come to you because. So which one would you do? Pop tartar sausage biscuit. [00:06:23] Speaker C: Well, that's a tough one because, I mean, my man likes his sausage. I know, but he loves some sweets. I do know that. What flavor are we talking about? [00:06:31] Speaker A: Being balanced. [00:06:33] Speaker C: I'm just saying, you got breakfast time and you got a choice. Doesn't matter what you had yesterday. [00:06:38] Speaker A: But do you want a balanced meal? That's what I. Oh, [00:06:43] Speaker B: which one of those is a balanced meal? [00:06:45] Speaker C: Sausage biscuit. [00:06:46] Speaker A: Can. [00:06:46] Speaker C: But you got carbs and protein in that. [00:06:48] Speaker B: I think in Fact, I don't see a benchmark. [00:06:50] Speaker C: Well, no. [00:06:51] Speaker A: Well, I think a sausage biscuit and V8. [00:06:56] Speaker C: There you go. [00:06:56] Speaker B: Okay, I can get on V8. [00:06:58] Speaker A: Remember the V8 commercial? The commercial when they come out. When they came out. But have you had your V8 today? You know, they were. [00:07:05] Speaker B: Oh, I thought I could have had a V8. And he hits himself in the head. [00:07:09] Speaker A: No. [00:07:09] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, you're worried that you go back and watch. Yes, that's what they did first. [00:07:15] Speaker A: No, the V8, where they kind of walk it sideways. They had their V8, that was the 90s and then they straightened up. [00:07:20] Speaker B: No, this 70s was. I could have had a V8 to hit themselves. [00:07:23] Speaker A: Oh, no, no. I don't remember that. But I remember that I wasn't addicted to TV then, sir. Okay, [00:07:32] Speaker B: so I have been accused of being long winded. I'm getting tired of that accusation. False accusation [00:07:39] Speaker A: can accuse you being long winded. [00:07:42] Speaker B: When King was. I'm hearing. I'm hearing my own secretary say something about it's 12 o' clock when you let us out. And I'm like, I didn't. [00:07:49] Speaker C: That is normal. [00:07:49] Speaker B: For the record, I think it was. We had sung and I was doing the benediction at 11:55. [00:07:56] Speaker C: That's how I remember it. [00:07:57] Speaker B: Yeah. So I mean, if y' all gotta [00:07:59] Speaker A: do all that singing, I don't care if you go to 1, 2 o'. [00:08:02] Speaker B: Clock. [00:08:03] Speaker A: Because it doesn't bother my items. [00:08:04] Speaker B: Yeah, but the people in children's church, [00:08:06] Speaker A: you wouldn't have very many. [00:08:09] Speaker C: I will agree with that, actually, because [00:08:12] Speaker B: that's one of the reasons I'm kind of like, look, I try my best. [00:08:14] Speaker A: I know you do, man. But I could date. I could stay all day. It doesn't matter to me. [00:08:18] Speaker C: I told Gabe Sunday we were leaving [00:08:20] Speaker A: and he said, break for lunch. Break for lunch or cater it. [00:08:23] Speaker B: Yeah, Church on the brain. [00:08:25] Speaker C: Gabe. We're leaving Sunday and Gabe says we can say hey to be in before we go. I said, let's go get Christian from children's church first. Because I know one thing for sure that they are ready to go. Yeah, let's go, let's go. You'll get them first. Right? But this is. [00:08:40] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:08:40] Speaker A: It was Jordan and. Who helped Jordan and her mother. [00:08:44] Speaker C: That's it. Okay. Jordan and Angela, that was. It was probably the only. [00:08:47] Speaker B: Yeah, you're really going to cut her short, Gary. [00:08:50] Speaker C: Yeah, I was trying because this was the first one in a while that I didn't know who was doing it. I didn't I know the names of who it is, but I don't know the people doing it. So I was going around during the greeting trying to figure out who it was so I could ask if Reese could help. She loves to go up there and I think she likes to help. I think she mostly likes getting out of the sermon, but like, hey, I'd [00:09:10] Speaker B: rather you go there. [00:09:11] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm not putting them age difference, but it is till 3 third grade, I think. [00:09:16] Speaker C: Yeah, I think so. [00:09:17] Speaker A: I don't care. Yeah. Adults come. Yeah. If they want to. Just. [00:09:21] Speaker C: Well, I mean, you want them to go where they're going to get the most. Well, you want out of their time. I mean, you want to go where [00:09:26] Speaker A: the term is not too long. [00:09:27] Speaker C: Long class stop. [00:09:29] Speaker A: Too long. And. And yeah, so. And they, you can have their full attention. That's why we say we had no limits. So what when you start seeing adults going and they have more than two. Yeah. Then you better, you better start thinking about how you kind of shorten your service there a little bit. [00:09:48] Speaker C: My favorite, my favorite's when it's about 11:48 and you're saying, all right, I know I gotta go, I know I gotta go. You got three more. Three more points to just give them [00:10:00] Speaker A: to you real quick. [00:10:02] Speaker B: And that sermon Sunday, I mean for my defense or to my defense, you [00:10:06] Speaker A: don't have to defend yourself. [00:10:08] Speaker B: Oh, I feel like I do now. Not you, but to everybody. No, John, chapter 11, it's all one story and it's 40 something verses long, dude. [00:10:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. [00:10:18] Speaker B: So I mean, you gotta tell the story and there's all kinds of things going on with Martha, with Mary. I mean, you can't just bypass that. I guess I could have just focused on 25 through 27, but you still gotta set the context. [00:10:32] Speaker A: Well, yeah, and the thing about it, how we read the Bible, is you're trying to bring out the spiritual implications, which is what you're supposed to do. A lot of times we read the Bible and we begin to read the story. [00:10:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:10:49] Speaker A: And not read it with our spiritual eyes. I mean, I find, I find myself drifting back and forth. [00:10:55] Speaker B: And there are times that you do want to read it for the story. Well, yes, in the whole draw out those spiritual implications. Like for instance, I mean, look, I know it's not the main point of the theme of the text, but the fact that Martha goes out and Mary stays in, you know, here's. That's not Mary. Mary is the one who's always at Jesus's feet. Why is it she's not going out. And my point was just to say, look, no matter who you are, spiritual giant or not, a worshiper at heart or not, there going to be times when you, you, you're going to struggle. And Mary was. And she's one of the best. I mean, she was such a worshiper that Jesus says this will be a testimony to her for all time. We still talk about what she did. [00:11:41] Speaker A: That's what I was saying. You were, you're going with your spiritual eyes. [00:11:44] Speaker B: You were saying that. [00:11:45] Speaker A: Well, no, I was saying you would. You were. You saying. You were preaching it. [00:11:51] Speaker C: He was thinking spiritually. [00:11:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I, it, I, I know what you're saying because once you start explaining that time. I got it. [00:11:56] Speaker C: Well, it's kind of easy for me [00:11:58] Speaker A: to explain it to you. [00:11:59] Speaker B: Well, I just, I just didn't know that's what I was saying. I was like, that ain't what I was saying. [00:12:09] Speaker C: You said before, there's. You got to be careful not to try to make big things out of little things in the Bible and try to. And really go to seed is your word or your phrase for that on something. That's a small point, but there's. That was. I like that you brought that point up because it's something you can easily gloss over reading that. I mean, John said it for a reason, that Mary stayed inside. What was the reason? [00:12:34] Speaker B: It's emphasizing four days and he emphasizes some things. John's very particular about the way he paints pictures and what he gives. And he gives details. Just like, you know, when we looked at John 9 and the man was sent to the pool of Salaam, he puts in there, which means sent. Well, why you gotta tell us that? You know, I mean, that is one of that. Evidently it meant something to John to put that in there. Yeah, well. [00:12:59] Speaker C: And if you've, if you got know the rest of the story to understand the significance of him pointing that in there. If you don't know the story about Martha and Mary and she was the one at Jesus's feet, then you don't catch the part right, that, oh, she's the one who not had the most faith, but she was the one who was commended for worship. Right? Yeah, there you go. [00:13:24] Speaker B: If I'm not mistaken, I think she was the only Jew that was commended for her worship. There were some other Gentiles that were, you know, I've not found faith like this in all of Israel. There were Gentiles who were. She was the only Jew, that man. She, she worshiped him and and, you know, anointed his feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair and the perfume. I mean, this is. This is a worshiper extraordinaire. [00:13:47] Speaker C: Well, and you made the point. I think this was your words. I wrote this down. When your world gets rocked, it's not about what you feel or how you feel. It's about what you believe. And, you know, she was. I don't know if that was the point or if that was the part of the sermon that you made that [00:14:01] Speaker B: comment 26, where Jesus tells on the resurrection and life. He who believes in me will not perish. But it basically is saying. But then at the end, he says, do you believe this? He doesn't say, how does that make you feel? Do you feel comforted? Or do you feel a little more calm, better now? No, it's. Do you believe this? Because I believe that's, you know, as I said. Yeah. It's not so oftentimes how you feel. It's what you are believing. Yeah. And are you. Are you confident in it? Yeah. [00:14:32] Speaker C: Welcome to the other 167, by the way, before I forget that we're about to get deep into it, and we hadn't even said hey yet, so. Hey, everybody. [00:14:39] Speaker B: How you feeling? [00:14:40] Speaker C: How you feeling, Kenny? [00:14:41] Speaker A: Million bucks, man. Million bucks. [00:14:44] Speaker B: You're looking good. I'm telling you. I'll tell you, that's a hardy diet, the hearty diet. It's a breakfast, noon, and, well, you [00:14:53] Speaker A: don't want to eat there Three times. [00:14:55] Speaker B: Two times a day is okay. [00:14:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say. Yeah. [00:14:58] Speaker B: Okay. I'm just trying to figure out a snack. [00:15:01] Speaker A: The apple. Apple pie Turner. A good. Late at night. You don't. [00:15:05] Speaker C: You don't get to go to Hardee's too many times a day and keep it under 2,000 calories. No, that's a challenge. Sometimes you can't go once. 2000, if you big out on it. [00:15:13] Speaker B: Yeah. If you go to getting certain things, [00:15:15] Speaker A: Just get the bag. Yeah. [00:15:17] Speaker B: That's what, 5.99? [00:15:19] Speaker A: What about 500 calories? I think. [00:15:21] Speaker B: I don't think so. [00:15:22] Speaker C: You got that in the sandwich? [00:15:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:24] Speaker C: You get. [00:15:25] Speaker A: Have you. Have you read the label? [00:15:27] Speaker B: I'm pretty confident it's more than 500 calories. If you're eating the double double. It's a double cheeseburger. Right. [00:15:33] Speaker C: That's gonna be 50 all day. [00:15:35] Speaker B: I know, but I'm just saying, if you get the double cheeseburger and a hot dog and a fry and a drink, I'm gonna go ahead and tell you that's 500 calories. [00:15:43] Speaker A: Not if you get two hot dogs. [00:15:45] Speaker C: Almost anything. You just list. [00:15:46] Speaker B: I'm almost certain. If you get two hot dogs in [00:15:49] Speaker A: a fry and a salad. [00:15:53] Speaker B: I don't know. The hardest heart. It's got a salad now. [00:15:55] Speaker A: It used to. I don't know if they. They might have that out. [00:15:58] Speaker B: It's kind of like that one at Bojangles. It's been the same one in the refrigerator now for. They got. They got that refrigerator set so low so it don't turn brown or even. It's a fake salad. So that. Oh, yeah, we got a salad. Yeah. [00:16:11] Speaker C: Probably one of the things that I've been. So I finished Book of Job a couple weeks ago. All right. And first of all, one thing about. One thing about Job. If him and his buddies would argue with one another, that book would have been about chapters long. It was not. Is it. If him and his buddies. [00:16:28] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:16:30] Speaker C: If him. His buddies wouldn't argue so much. It had been about three or four chapters. [00:16:33] Speaker B: Because it's amazing, isn't it? [00:16:34] Speaker C: God's part is pretty simple. I mean, he. He got to the chase by the first chapter. You get the scene in heaven that's going to set all this. [00:16:42] Speaker B: I hate to say it. I' read the book of Job and read the first two chapters and skipped to about 33, 30. [00:16:47] Speaker C: I came real, real close. [00:16:48] Speaker B: Like, man, I don't even want to hear what. What these guys have to say, but it's good to read. But I want to hear what. What does God say? [00:16:56] Speaker C: It's like, yeah, I came real close. [00:16:58] Speaker A: I mean, it really is. Yeah. What do they. [00:17:01] Speaker B: That's the best line ever. [00:17:03] Speaker C: Don't tell them that yet there, Kenny. They won't listen to the whole thing. [00:17:06] Speaker B: That's awesome. [00:17:07] Speaker C: But. But I. I came real close. Probably about 20 chapters into it. It's like, I get it now. We're just gonna repeat this over and over and over. [00:17:14] Speaker B: And I've read it before one of his friends. Okay. You did something, Joe. [00:17:17] Speaker C: Yeah. Why does the fourth friend get a pass, though? The fourth guy that speaks up doesn't get rebuked by God. [00:17:26] Speaker B: Maybe he's tired. He's tired of talking. [00:17:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:32] Speaker B: Lord. Y' all shut up. [00:17:33] Speaker C: A couple of things, but number one, I'm surprised. You know, Job gets a pretty long two, three chapter. [00:17:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:38] Speaker C: Where were you? Yeah. [00:17:40] Speaker B: And who taught the snow and. Yeah, the storehouse. [00:17:43] Speaker C: And then he hits the boy. [00:17:44] Speaker B: The. [00:17:44] Speaker C: The guys that were wrong, really, in the story, for the most part, he only gives them like two Paragraphs of rebuking and then says that Job was right. More right I guess in the way he spoke. So I thought that was interesting. But there were two things that kind of just high level takeaways from, from this pass through it. One thing I never really thought about is that if you think about it in this way, Job was really blessed from the start when he says, have you considered my servant Job? [00:18:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:16] Speaker C: Who's basically no one else. Like essentially his face, he's upright, he's [00:18:21] Speaker B: right, you know, hey, he's my servant. [00:18:24] Speaker C: And in a way there it's like, you know, not. Not that it's a badge of honor or anything, but. But God knew how much faith he had given Job and that that was ultimately the. One of the blessings that he gets out of it is is seeing how much faith he really did have. Sometimes you don't think about like when you. There's a lot of workouts that'll tell you to like push to your limit, push to failure, right. And the only way you know exactly how many you can do is to go one more than you can do. I can, I know I can do 10 push ups. I think I can do 20. The only way I know for sure is to do one more than I can handle. And I think in, in Job's case and maybe some other cases, you might go to that limit sometimes to. And maybe God even. I don't, I don't know if this is something God would do necessarily, but let you go past your limb just to show you where your limit really is so that you can see how that limit has grown over time. Failure never feels good when you go through it. But at the same time, you know, there's things that used to would have really crushed me a few years ago that don't even hardly phase me now. And you see that kind of growth. So that was one thing. And then the second takeaway from it is just, you know what? We're just not entitled to all the answers. And sometimes we sure think we are and we're not. Anything he chooses to reveal to us is a blessing. We're not entitled to any to know anything more than. [00:19:44] Speaker B: And I think that's one of the points Sunday that I was getting at too is, you know, Martha's being real thrall with Jesus. I mean point blank, Jesus, you'd been here if my brother wouldn't have died. Now again, is that showing faith or is it showing discontentment? I think it's a combination of both. But I think it's really more of the discontentment part just because anger, grief is a lot of stuff going on there. And my point was you can be real and raw with God, he can handle it. I said, but just don't expect an answer or expect the answer, you won't. [00:20:17] Speaker C: That was one of the other points I was going to bring up on that too. [00:20:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:20] Speaker B: Because oftentimes, God, why are you doing this? God, you've left me, you've done this. Well, don't be surprised if God doesn't come back with no, I've been here the whole time. Or it might be something, you might think you're justified in that statement. But God may come back and say, let's set the record straight or reveal something to you that, oh, I ain't thought about it that way or something else or you're not entitled to it. [00:20:47] Speaker C: I told Reese that said this on the last time we recorded, but she asked, is it okay to be mad at God? And I said, well, I guess, I mean, you want to be honest with him, right? But just understand if you're mad, who's right and who's wrong. [00:21:00] Speaker B: Yeah. If it is a mad, it needs to be very short lived going of, you know what, God, I'm hurt, I'm crushed. And God, I sure wish this hadn't happened like that. [00:21:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:10] Speaker B: At the same time, don't, don't stay there because there ain't no sense in it. [00:21:14] Speaker C: Usually when I've gotten to a point where I'm frustrated, I'm. I don't want to lie and pretend because he knows better. I know that part. But usually the prayer is just, I know I'm wrong for this, but I can't help it right now. [00:21:28] Speaker B: Please help me express this. [00:21:31] Speaker C: Yeah, please help me to get feeling this way. [00:21:33] Speaker B: I don't think God strikes us now if you say something like, you know, curse God. Oh yeah, that one's sound like one of Job's friends or his wife. But if it's something that way. But to be real and honest and hurting, man, I don't know. There's just a part of me that says, I think that's the beauty of a relationship with the Lord is it should be real. Not a put on, not a, you know, oh, I'm gonna walk in and I gotta speak the King James English when I pray and I gotta do this. No, I think it should be that our hurts or he knows our hurts. Because God, I'm really struggling with this and I wish this wasn't the way it was, but God, what do I say? What do I do? Those are the things he's looking for. [00:22:15] Speaker C: Speaking of the King James English when you pray. I was the other morning. So I usually pray myself to sleep at night and then just pick right back up wherever I left off the night before as I'm waking up. And the other morning, man, I could not concentrate. My life depended on it. I laid there for about an hour, probably, and it occurred to me that I've been sitting here praying for an hour, and I've said the same thing six times and have not spent a total of 10 minutes of this, 60 actually praying. It's like, ooh, squirrel. And I started thinking about it. I was like, I've always felt really guilty about that. I mean, you're talking to the Lord. This should not be something that's boring and you can't stay focused on. But I was laying the other morning thinking about that. Well, once I wake up and go about my day until my Adderall kicks in, I can't maintain focus for 30 seconds. Maybe that's why I've always had such a hard time staying focused on my prayers, because I'm distracted in anything I do. [00:23:07] Speaker A: I get it first thing in the morning. I am not, like, coherent or whatever because I just woke up. I have a hard time keeping focus now. Renee can get up in the morning. That's what she does. Yeah. First thing. Not me. It takes me a while to kind of agree. [00:23:25] Speaker B: I mean, it's. Everybody's different. [00:23:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:27] Speaker B: And I don't. [00:23:28] Speaker A: Because she's having coffee. I'm not. So. [00:23:30] Speaker B: And I think that, you know, when David writes early in the morning, well, I will see thee. I don't know that he's saying, all right, as soon as your eyes open up. Although it's a good thing. As soon as your eyes open. Thinking about the Lord. But as far as jumping in there and. Okay, I really got to get into it. I think a lot of sometimes is, hey, man, get your whistle about you. Because I want to do it with a fresh heart and fresh mind and fresh eyes. And so. And for some people, like myself, my best times at night. [00:23:55] Speaker A: I was going to say, I really get things done at night for spiritually mold. [00:24:01] Speaker B: And then I mold physically, mentally, jobily, and I. Whatever. [00:24:04] Speaker A: And I think about it while I'm asleep all night long. [00:24:08] Speaker C: I think that's professionally we were going for, not job, whatever. [00:24:16] Speaker B: I do better at night than I sometimes. Because you're more focused. Here is. There's distractions every 10 minutes here yeah, More done at night than I can in this office. I mean, it's just the way it is. [00:24:28] Speaker C: It takes me a good 30 minutes easily to just feel like I'm, I'm, like I'm, I'm fully awake and you're ready to concentrate on something. And yeah, I do like to. If I do study in the morning, it's after I get back from dropping the kids off. Sometimes I'll get up, take the kids to school, come back, and if I've got time, I'll study then. But I've never, if I tried to get up at 6 o' clock in the morning and, and then go sit down and read, read scripture while I drink my coffee, I wouldn't understand it probably till I finish the coffee. I mean, I'm just kind of, kind of going through the motions. If I could, if the kids were old enough to train them to come in there and just pop one of those pills in my mouth while I'm still sleeping, I'd wake up hitting the ground running. But as it is, it takes me a Good, you know, 30 minutes to an hour to get going. But at night, yeah, that's when I [00:25:15] Speaker A: do my best, when I really can. Things become clearer right before I go to bed. [00:25:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:22] Speaker A: But first thing in the morning I get up early. [00:25:25] Speaker B: Right. [00:25:25] Speaker A: But I focused on other things of what am I going to do when. [00:25:29] Speaker B: A lot of times that happens too. First thing in the morning, what have I got to do today? And am I going to be able to get that task done before I got to go to. I know I got to be there at 10, so I got to get started at 6:30. [00:25:39] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean, it's been like that through work. I would be at work at 5:00'. Clock. Right. But I'm getting out at 4:30, I'm out the door. Well, 5:30, I'm out the Door at 5:00. And then from there to about 8:00 clock at night, I was just focused. And after 8 o' clock I'm fine. I mean, I'm not tired, I'm not. I can focus on. Maybe I should, I can focus on spiritual things. But then here's the question. The, the kickback on that or pushback on should God be first? And that's what I have to. Of course, yes. But I first in what first day of the week or first part of the day or all day or, you know, it should be all day. So I get a kickback on that is. Well, shouldn't God be first as soon as you get up in the morning. [00:26:40] Speaker B: I think so, but I think, yeah, [00:26:42] Speaker A: but I'm not ready to actually. [00:26:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, I think. I don't think that. I mean, look, as soon as my eyes open up, I want to be thinking about, all right, Lord, today is the day you've made. And I think that counts as that. But as far as diving into a deep theological read, that's later on for me. Yeah, I think it needs to be. I think each person is different. Although a light godpost or daily living or little small light devotion or a verse, just to concentrate on one verse. That's a good way. You don't have to do a deep dive first thing in the morning as much as it is just all right, center in my thoughts, center in my life, center in my heart. Today's focus is I'm focusing on you. Yes, I've got tasks and I've got jobs and I've got all these things I got to do. But God, first and foremost, I want to make sure that today I'm about honoring you. I think that's. That's enough right there. That's just to start the day with that. You don't. Nothing said about having to read three passages or. [00:27:44] Speaker A: But then the example you get is, well, Jesus first thing in the morning, went to the mountains sometimes. Do we know he did that? [00:27:51] Speaker B: Everything. [00:27:52] Speaker A: He stayed all night too, sometimes. Yeah. [00:27:54] Speaker C: Well, this feels like the. If we're debate. If you're saying push back, as in, some people would tell you you're wrong for doing it this way or wrong for doing it that. I would say that this is the definition of one of the things that the Pharisees would argue about. [00:28:05] Speaker A: That is. [00:28:06] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think. I think the main thing is I'm [00:28:09] Speaker A: not saying they push it back. I'm not saying that that's. They're not saying it's. [00:28:14] Speaker B: Well, what you're saying is I want to make sure the first thing I do is on my mind is Jesus. [00:28:18] Speaker A: Yes, and I get that. And it is. But it's not in a. A study thought, you know, studying the Bible. That will be later on when I know I don't have to be pressed to get this done. I come home at 8 o' clock or 7 o' clock or 10 o'. Clock. I can spend as long as I want to, you know. [00:28:41] Speaker C: Well, hopefully, you know, hopefully you're. You're getting to a point. And if you're not there, this is one of the things that you're certainly striving. For is I don't want to be. I don't want to have to be reading the Bible to be thinking about Jesus. Right? I mean, yes, when I'm reading the Bible, I'm thinking about Jesus, but I want to be thinking about him when I'm reading, riding in the car. I want to be thinking about him all the time, you know, And I think if you're saying, well, Jesus, yes, God comes first, but that doesn't mean you check him off and you'll see him again tomorrow. You know what I mean? I think it's something that you want to get it. He can't if he's not the first thing you think of. If he's the first thing you think of, then at least you, you don't want to skip any part of the day. You don't want to skip the first part, second part, or the end of it either. [00:29:25] Speaker A: But my best word, study wise, it's done probably at 10 o'. Clock. [00:29:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:30] Speaker A: And I can just, you know, that's me too. That's one o'. Clock. [00:29:33] Speaker C: After the kids go to bed. That's when I can. A lot of times I'll. [00:29:36] Speaker B: That's what's quiet. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. [00:29:40] Speaker C: You said something the other day that I wanted to, I thought would be a good podcast topic, actually, and it was sort of in passing, but when I talked to you on the phone the other day and I said, you know, I hate that every time we have these long conversations about stuff, it's always bad situations. And you say, well, that's part of just being a pastor. You see the best and the worst times of people. But I was thinking about that a little bit later on that, that day, and I thought, you know, that. And I've heard this before, that it's one of the kind of hazards of the job, I guess. But you, how much do you feel sometimes, if you want to be honest about it, that the only time you talk to people and people are always calling you in times of distress and as opposed to just having buddies that you can. Just things that, you know, me and you should text back and forth during state games and stuff like that. I mean, and I can also see some people maybe it being harder for a pastor to find like genuine friends because people kind of keep the pastor. [00:30:36] Speaker B: Just that sometimes is the hardest part. [00:30:38] Speaker C: I want me close to you, but [00:30:39] Speaker A: I want you to get you close [00:30:40] Speaker C: enough so you know everything about me. [00:30:42] Speaker B: You know that sometimes is the hardest part. And I think sometimes I'll be honest with You. I think sometimes it all depends upon the pastor himself. Some pastors are just. I'm just going to put it out there. Some pastors are easy to get to know. Some pastors are easy to relate to. I've had pastors in my life that, man, I just didn't find them that relatable. And no matter how hard I tried, it was kind of like I just. He didn't seem like a real dude. Not that he got to be a dude or a, you know, one of those guys, but I think it's just one of. And I think a lot of times it goes with each pastor is what is their demeanor. Some people are just more open to want to talk to people, and some are wanting to be around people. Some have to during their work. And then, oh, gosh, I'm ready to shut it down, go on my house and crash. And I think that's. Each one is different, but it's finding, like, trying to find a real friend that, okay, man, this is. That's why a lot of times pastors and pastors are real good friends. I have found that for me, a lot of times it's just people that are in the church that once you find somebody that you are good with and tight with and, you know, hey, we can share these things and we're there for each other. Yeah. I always like to put it this way, and this may not be the right way. In fact, there may be somebody who would say, Ben, that's the totally worst way is I'm your friend first, but I also happen to be your pastor. [00:32:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:11] Speaker B: You know, I know as the way it is with my family, I'm her son first, but I'm also having to be her pastor. I'm my brother, my brother's brother, but I'm also having to be his pastor. And so I want to be that friend just as much as I do. Okay. Yeah. I'm your pastor. Because I think oftentimes having that friendship or having that connection allows you to be able to either speak into the life or, hey, let me pray for you, or, hey, man, this. This isn't where you want to be. [00:32:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:42] Speaker B: What's. What's going on here, man? Something quite right. [00:32:44] Speaker C: Well, it's. It's hard and I do feel like it's. It seems that way from. For you that you've got really close relationships within the church. I said you got. Just from as I've gotten to know you and stuff. I know that I'm not the only person in the church that Text once in a while back and forth over things that are not Bible related or whatever. And I think that's a. It does help you be relatable. And I lost my next point to that. But, but I think this is the point I was making. I think that if it's not that way to some extent, and I don't think this is 100% true, but to really shepherd your flock, you kind of got to know where their dark spots are and where you know, and you got to kind of get nomen. And sometimes it's hard to really counsel somebody if they're only telling you the 90% of the truth. That sounds good. You know, I mean, you kind of. [00:33:40] Speaker B: And look, I am not the good shepherd. Jesus is that I am an under shepherd at best. And even then at times I feel like I'm under shepherd of the lowest level. But under shepherd. I hope that I'm learning from the good Shepherd. And when he says in John 10:10, the sheep know my voice. But that, that, that. That's also true. The opposite is. The shepherd knows the sheep. [00:34:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:06] Speaker B: He knows the imperfections. He knows that one ain't mine. He's. What's he doing following me? He needs to be with that other flock. [00:34:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:12] Speaker B: That kind of thing. So the, the shepherd has to know they. At the same time. [00:34:17] Speaker A: It's. [00:34:17] Speaker B: It's hard to know everybody and everything, but you still want to at least be there and be. Hey. And care. [00:34:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:25] Speaker B: I think that's the whole thing is. And care. [00:34:28] Speaker A: Well, and sometimes it's hard to, to know somebody because they don't want to let you in. [00:34:34] Speaker B: That's right. [00:34:34] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. I mean, I don't think of you as a pastor. I think of you as a good friend. Okay. Who happens to be a pastor. [00:34:41] Speaker B: Thank you. And that's really kind of what I wanted to. [00:34:45] Speaker A: And I like to. And I want to help you out. [00:34:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:34:49] Speaker A: You're 24 7. You know, it brings me great joy to help you. I know that I. Helping you to fulfill your position. [00:34:59] Speaker B: And just like this morning, what you did, that's part of that helps me out. One of the thoughts that helps the [00:35:04] Speaker A: whole church if people are doing so. I mean, that's, that's how I feel about anybody. I don't think Malik is my Sunday school class teacher. I think I've hit him as a good friend that teaches Sunday school class. [00:35:16] Speaker B: That's it. [00:35:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And I did. I'll. And you're easy to know. I'll tell you whatever you Wanted whatever. I feel like time, you know, I mean, of course I'm not. [00:35:29] Speaker B: We can be open. [00:35:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:31] Speaker C: Or. [00:35:32] Speaker A: And I would expect that towards me. [00:35:35] Speaker B: Right. [00:35:35] Speaker A: Because I ain't going to judge nobody. Because I can't judge nobody. Because I. Too sinful myself. Right. You know, I have stopped at some of the things I have done in my life. Actually. Horrified. [00:35:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:50] Speaker A: And so I had no reason to set myself above someone else. Right. [00:35:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:57] Speaker A: I mean, agreed. [00:35:59] Speaker B: I had not at that point, but myself. [00:36:01] Speaker A: Renee hasn't committed murder yet. [00:36:04] Speaker B: She's thought about it. [00:36:06] Speaker A: She's divorced me several times. But it would have been a lot cleaner if she. So, you know, I have. I have a past. True. And it might be the same as others, but it's my past and I'm ashamed of it. And. And I know that my sin is just as evil and hateful and despicable to God. That's anybody else's sin. All right. I'm no better. Yeah, you got it right. Because there's no. There is no big or small sin. There is for us all the time. [00:36:43] Speaker B: Yeah. We. [00:36:43] Speaker A: We forgot. He's just too far off the. The charts to even that. That still don't qualify you. That little white. Well lie is just, you know, that's wrong. And so, you know, he's all perfect. I mean, that's just my thought. Yeah, you got it. Ask me a question. Anything you want to ask. [00:37:04] Speaker C: I. I have this note. This is a short little story, but a little note that I jotted down that just. I'm constantly trying to. To remind myself of the true character of God. And that because it's like we talked about last week or two weeks ago. There's that. There's the reverence, but there's the love and. And making sure that you remember how powerful he is, but also remember how loving he is. The other day I was riding and we were on the way to school, taking the kids and like they always do, morons on 401 always like to go through those little cut throughs that aren't supposed to be cut throughs and, you know, cars are checking up. I had to get on the brakes pretty hard. And as I did, I just reached my arm over in front of Gabe. Now my mom used to do this all the time. [00:37:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:47] Speaker C: When. When you slam on brakes. I, you know, I think I did. [00:37:50] Speaker B: I know he grew up in seatbelt times. [00:37:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:53] Speaker A: I was. [00:37:54] Speaker C: I was in the front seat at three years old and sitting on a beanbag, but I was. Yeah, we had seat belts But I was. After it happened, Gabe said, thanks for doing that, dad. You know, reaching your arm over and trying to protect me. And I said, honestly, I said, I really didn't even think about it. It wasn't something I said. It's funny now that I think about it now. My mom used to do that all the time. And as I said that, I said, you know what? Nin slammed on the brakes a lot. She. This happened to me a lot more than it does you. Because she was always slamming on brakes and reaching over. But I was thinking about that fatherly instinct that we have to protect our kids without even thinking about it. We just instinctively want to do what's best for our kids and love our kids and do. And I just forget that side of God sometimes that he's. That he see, sees us the same way and wants to protect us the same way and loves us the same way and wants to guide us the same way. And I just, I'm constantly slipping into seeing him as the, the CEO of everything. Who. Yeah, he's approachable, but he's really, mainly. It's his knowledge and his power. And I forget the love part sometimes. And it's just an important one to. I think that's probably fourth or fifth time in a row I've said that, but I'm really trying to remember that side. [00:39:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:04] Speaker A: And. [00:39:05] Speaker B: And that side's very, very important because it's like we said the other day, a dear sweet saint used to say about her husband. Have you ever been mad at your husband? I would ever be mad. Why would I ever be mad at someone who wants the best for me? Well, if we know that God wants the best for us because he loves us, and when you settle that, that's going to make all the difference in the world. That, okay, I know I can trust him because he wants the best for me. Even if the best might lead me down a road that is the valley of the shadow of death. Even if the. Even what he wants for us might lead us into a world of misery like Job. But at the end, you see that he was blessed double fold numerous times over. But he had to go through. He got to go. Oftentimes we got to go through something to really discover who he is. Or discover, whoa, God, you really are true to your word. [00:40:01] Speaker C: Random question. Because you brought Job back up. And I thought I was done with that. But there was another thing I thought about with Job. How long does that entire story take to play out? Because it doesn't really say. There's A time, I think in there where it says something like there was a seven day break in between round one and round two of the speeches. But it never really says. [00:40:19] Speaker B: I don't think, I don't think it. And it doesn't start off by saying on the first day of the twelfth month in heaven, the hosts got together, say anything like that. Really don't know. At the end of Job it says that God gave him children. So is that grown children he's talking about? Or is it. Or is this. I mean, what kind of children? How long does that take? That's nine months or at minimum, if they have babies, that's at least nine children being plural, you don't have them all at one time. [00:40:51] Speaker A: Did he say he had the same amount of children before? [00:40:53] Speaker B: No, he did not. He did not. [00:40:55] Speaker A: Okay. [00:40:58] Speaker B: Yeah, but children was actually. This was actually half. [00:41:01] Speaker A: Okay. I can't. [00:41:02] Speaker C: Well, it was the same. Everything else was doubled. [00:41:05] Speaker A: Was it the same wife? That's what I don't know. [00:41:08] Speaker B: Oh Lord, I hope not. [00:41:11] Speaker C: I forget that. I forget that he didn't lose his wife. He didn't lose her. She just. [00:41:17] Speaker A: If it says what I can't remember if it's from the same one. [00:41:20] Speaker C: I don't think it says otherwise. I don't think it says otherwise. So I think you presume that it's. [00:41:26] Speaker A: His wife gets a lot of. [00:41:28] Speaker C: That sounds like another one of his curses was that he lost everything. [00:41:30] Speaker A: But his wife, she gets a lot of flat by just saying something that, you know, she already lost all of her children, so that's true. That's. [00:41:39] Speaker B: He also had seven sons and three [00:41:41] Speaker A: daughters, which is what he had before, wasn't it? [00:41:44] Speaker C: The commentary of mine, I believe, said that it. That was technically doubling it for him because he had seven and three and now he had the seven and three that were in heaven plus the seven and three on earth. So in heaven it would be double doubled. [00:41:56] Speaker B: I always, always thought, well, you know, he doubled, you know, the. As far as camels. Yeah, I do always say, well, God was trying to bless the man. Lord have mercy. [00:42:07] Speaker A: I thought he had the same amount of children. But his wife. It doesn't say anything about his wife. She was the mother, does it? [00:42:16] Speaker B: Just assume it. It is the same. [00:42:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. But 22 of. [00:42:22] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, 21 if you doubled, you know. No, 20, that's right. Seven and three. That's right. [00:42:27] Speaker A: 20 times nine. She's pregnant for 15 years. [00:42:31] Speaker B: No, don't say anything about taking his wife. [00:42:33] Speaker A: How would you like. I don't Know if it could survive being pregnant for 15 years. [00:42:40] Speaker B: Well, they were tougher back then and they did live. I mean it says here job lived another 140 years after that. Yeah, well, I don't know that it gives us his age. I'm trying to think if it did. I don't know if it did. So just, I mean you can just how long did it go on? I mean from the beginning to the end. That covers a whole lot of time when you got young and 10. [00:43:02] Speaker C: Because it doesn't for the. Everybody that high level knows the story of Job. It, if you have, if you've seen the trailer for Job, then when you actually watch the movie, it's almost anticlimactic in a way because it's just like all of a sudden it's. It's the last chapter before it that God gave him double what he had to start with. And it's like five verses maybe that gives him the detail of it. [00:43:26] Speaker B: I like starting in about chapter 34. [00:43:29] Speaker A: And I think because of the age that it was written before Abraham or [00:43:35] Speaker B: during Abraham, most scholars put it has written at the same time as Abraham [00:43:40] Speaker A: was in the land, same land that he came from. [00:43:44] Speaker B: Well, and you got to stop and think it may have even been before Abraham because I mean you're talking about another 140 years after the main course happened and that's that. That would almost have to be before the flood. [00:43:57] Speaker A: How old was Abraham? 175. [00:44:00] Speaker B: Well he's 90. When he had 100. When he had Isaac. Okay, so I'm not sure the exact age but I mean if he was 90 when he had him, I don't know that it would have been too much more than that. I wouldn't put 45. [00:44:17] Speaker A: She just got old after that last one. She was a probably a very beautiful woman at 99. 90 years old. [00:44:24] Speaker B: That's what they're saying. [00:44:26] Speaker A: Like wow, I've never seen that. [00:44:28] Speaker B: But I've seen inner beauty. But I ain't never say no. [00:44:32] Speaker A: You're right, right, right. That's what I meant. [00:44:34] Speaker B: And let's just wait. Working on what? [00:44:37] Speaker A: I'm working on a 90 year old woman. [00:44:41] Speaker B: Let me see. I'm. I'm curious. Now you got me curious. Go ahead and start your next topic. I'll find it. [00:44:47] Speaker A: Think it's 175. That's kind of what I was thinking. [00:44:51] Speaker C: 175. [00:44:52] Speaker A: How long Abraham lived? [00:44:54] Speaker B: Well, I mean Sarah lived to be 127, so that's Sarah. So I don't think Abraham would be much more than that. [00:45:02] Speaker C: And he was 10 years older than her. [00:45:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Is that right? Roughly, yeah. That's according to what the Bible says. [00:45:08] Speaker B: I believe. [00:45:08] Speaker C: I believe she died a bit before him. [00:45:12] Speaker A: Well, 50 years is a long one [00:45:13] Speaker B: time at least one chapter. [00:45:16] Speaker A: But I. I think that would put. If Abraham died at 75. Yeah. He would have his grandchildren, maybe. No, I wouldn't say maybe. Great grandchildren. I'm not sure about that. No. I wouldn't think he would know his. He would know Jacob and Esau, but I don't know if he would know their children. [00:45:37] Speaker B: Kenny, I am impressed. [00:45:38] Speaker A: What? [00:45:40] Speaker B: All the years of Abraham's life that he lived. 175 years. [00:45:45] Speaker C: There you go. [00:45:46] Speaker B: So I think that I stated that my argument would be Job was before Abraham. [00:45:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:52] Speaker B: If he lived another 140 years. Now, granted, if he'd have been 30 years old when this happened, but that's a whole lot of youngest to have before you 30. If he had that many, you know, 10. Young. And they're grown. [00:46:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:04] Speaker B: I mean, that's the thing that makes it sound like they're grown because they all got together and then that's when the storm hit the house. So. [00:46:11] Speaker A: So he has a lifetime of two children. Two. He had two families, I guess. [00:46:16] Speaker C: Well, that's another thing that hit me on this is that his. His. His catastrophe was the same. It was all the same day. It was this person. While this person was saying this, somebody else coming up. [00:46:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:29] Speaker B: Here comes the next. [00:46:30] Speaker C: It wasn't like he had a bad year. He had one heck of a bad day. [00:46:33] Speaker B: Let's. Let's hit pause, boys. I don't want another. Don't anybody else come up to me. Yeah. [00:46:37] Speaker C: Nobody else's. Lock the door. [00:46:39] Speaker B: I don't want to hear another thing, because good gr. I mean, you're going from one to the other to the other. [00:46:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:46:45] Speaker A: Well, I've always wondered, and there's no answer is were they his children saved? Because, you know, he sacrificed for their children. [00:46:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:46:55] Speaker A: But yeah, you. Yeah, I'll send off, you know, whatever they did at that time. So I'm wondering if they were. I don't know. [00:47:04] Speaker B: Don't know. [00:47:05] Speaker A: Because they were carousing when they. When the storm came through. Yeah. [00:47:08] Speaker B: Well, they might have been having a wedding shower. [00:47:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, I get that. [00:47:15] Speaker B: I mean, I don't know. [00:47:20] Speaker A: It's a big wedding shower, all 10 of them. [00:47:24] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm just saying. I mean. I mean, I don't know that. But yeah, I do wonder because he is offering sacrifices for. [00:47:31] Speaker A: For them. [00:47:32] Speaker B: But it also shows the love that a father had for his children that. Hey. Okay. For us. [00:47:38] Speaker A: I'm just wondering about what the children is. [00:47:41] Speaker B: I don't think that's pointing story. [00:47:43] Speaker A: I know it's not, but I just wonder. I like to wonder about that. [00:47:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. [00:47:47] Speaker A: And there's no answer. [00:47:48] Speaker B: Sure. [00:47:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Unless I meet them, then I'll know I want to. [00:47:52] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll find out one day. The first question when you get up to ask Jeff, children here. I want to see them. [00:47:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:58] Speaker B: What kind of part of y' all doing Was this a wedding shower? My pastor was a wedding shower. I don't believe it. [00:48:03] Speaker A: I think y' all were corralled and I think corral. [00:48:07] Speaker C: Because outside of Jesus, who do you. Who would y' all want to meet in heaven? Oh, like who would meet your all star saying that you. [00:48:13] Speaker B: Wow, that's a great question. I'll yield to Kenny. [00:48:18] Speaker A: Oh, thank you. I haven't really thought about that. I would probably want to meet see my family. [00:48:27] Speaker C: No, it's got to be from the Bible. Oh, from the Bible. [00:48:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:30] Speaker B: Somebody famous. [00:48:31] Speaker C: No, somebody from the Bible. [00:48:33] Speaker A: Somebody that I had admired. I wouldn't say admire, but yes. Some I are impressed with would probably be Paul because of how he had to live his life, how much struggle he went through and how he was beaten and how humble he was when he says that. You know, I tried to do good, but I can't. How he came from a very prideful person to probably one of the most humblest people in the Bible that I personally. That I think to me was. [00:49:07] Speaker B: Okay, so that's a New Testament. Pick an Old Testament. [00:49:10] Speaker A: Yeah, we keep changing them. [00:49:11] Speaker C: We're just adding two. [00:49:13] Speaker B: I like this. Why not make it. You got to pick a New Testament, Old Testament saint. [00:49:18] Speaker A: The one in the Old Testament would probably be. I would like to see. That's a hard one. But I would like to see. [00:49:30] Speaker C: I've got three from the Old Testament. [00:49:33] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Which one? What chapter? [00:49:36] Speaker C: The only Genesis. [00:49:37] Speaker B: To Malachi. [00:49:39] Speaker A: Malachi. Malachi. No, Hosea would probably be. [00:49:45] Speaker B: Oh, nice. Nice. [00:49:46] Speaker A: Because of what? [00:49:47] Speaker B: Ask about his wife. [00:49:48] Speaker A: Well, that's how he was faithful to the Lord. [00:49:51] Speaker B: And don't you know, he gets tired of being. Yes, my wife's a prostitute. [00:49:55] Speaker A: Yeah. But he stayed faithful to the Lord. [00:49:58] Speaker C: Yes. I'm the one. [00:49:59] Speaker A: I want to see the people that had had the hardest struggle. Struggle. Not the famous how I. Because I admire that life. How everything's falling apart. [00:50:10] Speaker C: Right. [00:50:11] Speaker A: Still stay faithful. [00:50:12] Speaker B: Rebecca could be a good one too. [00:50:14] Speaker A: Yes. But Hosea, Jeremiah would be the. Oh, the one I would really like to see now. [00:50:23] Speaker B: You just want to see something. [00:50:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, when you send a book about a crime. Yeah. In the. You know. Well, for half your life or I don't know how for a while, you know, and could I be wrong. Is this really God? You know, I'm not sure he. I. I'm sure he had those thoughts. [00:50:42] Speaker B: Well, yeah, he's kind of told from the beginning. Don't expect much from this ministry. [00:50:47] Speaker A: I mean, John the Baptist, he should have known who Jesus was, but he questioned himself. [00:50:53] Speaker C: John the Baptist. [00:50:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:56] Speaker B: Well, he sent somebody. Are you the one or do I do or do we search for another? And then Jesus responds back with Isaiah saying, hey, the blind are having their eyes opened up. You know, the lame are walking the promise that Isaiah was had. [00:51:11] Speaker A: He's doing the job thing. Not really giving him the answer, but he should. [00:51:15] Speaker B: Or the Elijah thing, which he wanted. I want to meet Elijah. Felt sorry for himself when he was God, ain't I? You know, I've served you faithfully. Why is this this way? So a lot of those in the Old Testament struggled with their faith. [00:51:30] Speaker A: And maybe I don't kick that. [00:51:34] Speaker B: Kick into the. [00:51:35] Speaker A: Yeah, but, but don't. You know the heartache that he went through seeing his son killed? I mean, yes, he's the one that caused it, but don't. You know the heartache he had? What. How much he regretted doing that? [00:51:48] Speaker B: Sure. [00:51:50] Speaker A: And then he sees all this world, you know, how the world is turning out. So I think he would. Yeah. [00:51:58] Speaker B: He probably gets booed a lot. [00:51:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:00] Speaker C: He's not popular. [00:52:02] Speaker B: You'd be the one guy that shows up at his. Make his millennial [00:52:09] Speaker C: Eve. [00:52:10] Speaker A: Because of my sin, because of what I did. It's affected my family. Yeah. You know, how guilty can you feel on that? [00:52:18] Speaker B: So you're just trying to make them feel better. [00:52:20] Speaker A: No, I just want to know how they dealt with it. Because the Bible doesn't say much about it. Most if not all things said about Adam, it's pretty negative. [00:52:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:32] Speaker B: First Adam is he in heaven? Entered the world. Yeah. [00:52:37] Speaker A: And I think he is. Because how would we get the first messianic prophecy? I think he come away. Can you imagine having a perfect mind? Because we're going the other way. You have an imbalanced mind that is being made perfect. Having a perfect mind. Now all of a sudden you got fear and all this, you know, all this garbage that we, that we grow up in. So he's he's going down. Well, as suppose we're going up. Can you imagine how you would feel that? The guilt? Yeah. Let's just ask him. [00:53:14] Speaker C: I just. [00:53:15] Speaker B: You ain't gonna do my first one, though. [00:53:16] Speaker C: No. [00:53:18] Speaker A: Well, who is yours? [00:53:19] Speaker B: All right, well, New Testament, it's one problem. [00:53:22] Speaker A: No, Old Testament. [00:53:23] Speaker B: Old Testament. First [00:53:26] Speaker C: you went new first, then old. Either one. [00:53:29] Speaker A: Well, but he can't. Oh, I was just talking about the Old Testament, you know. [00:53:32] Speaker C: No, he didn't say. I was just. [00:53:33] Speaker A: I'm just talking about Bible characters to. [00:53:35] Speaker C: He didn't say. I was just talking about. [00:53:38] Speaker B: You answered New Testament. [00:53:39] Speaker A: Then he said, what about Old Testament? I mean, a Bible character. I'm gonna give you. [00:53:45] Speaker B: I'm gonna give you both New New Testament. I would want to. This one is a man that died. Probably the most like Jesus. In fact, some of the things he says when he's dying, almost as word for word for what Jesus said. I would love to beat Stephen, probably just to. Just to say, hey, man, you were the first martyr. And hey, that's a good one. I. Because, you know, you know, Peter and Paul and James and all those guys, they probably get a whole lot of love. I don't know. Stephen does. [00:54:14] Speaker A: Or Philip. [00:54:15] Speaker B: Yeah, well, he might be another good one. Or I might meet a Nathaniel, because, hey, I named my son after you. [00:54:22] Speaker A: You're pretty cool mention one time. [00:54:25] Speaker B: Yeah, but he's still a disciple. [00:54:27] Speaker A: Oh, Nathan. [00:54:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:54:29] Speaker B: Well, and there is no guy. Also, I mean, he was. Twice he was in there, and I think he was the one. Nathaniel, right? [00:54:36] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, but I was. Okay, Nathaniel, the. [00:54:40] Speaker B: The disciple. [00:54:41] Speaker A: Did you name Nate after Nathan or [00:54:44] Speaker B: Nathaniel from the Bible? [00:54:46] Speaker A: Okay, well, Nathan's from the Bible too. Direct descendant, but not that. Okay, I didn't know which place. [00:54:51] Speaker B: Nathaniel. And then Testament. I got a sleuth. [00:54:54] Speaker A: Is Nathaniel a plural for Nathan? No, it's not. I don't know. [00:55:00] Speaker B: Know the E. L is. Is. [00:55:02] Speaker A: See, I always thought you Hebrew. Your son was named after David's son, Ned. [00:55:07] Speaker B: No, I wouldn't. [00:55:10] Speaker A: But it was a good night. [00:55:12] Speaker B: Old Testament. I've got three. [00:55:15] Speaker A: I never want Daniel. [00:55:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd love to meet Daniel because my man was pretty sharp. But honestly, I'd love to meet Noah and Elijah. Noah, dude, I want to know, how did you build that big of a boat with no power tools, no electricity? Guys arms must be big as tree trunks. I want to see that Samson. I like to see Samson just say, okay, were you a big guy or were you a wimp? See, some scholars think Samson Was a wimp. [00:55:44] Speaker A: I think so. [00:55:45] Speaker B: You think so? See, that's disappointing to me. I'd want to. You know. [00:55:49] Speaker A: What do you think? [00:55:51] Speaker B: In my mind's eye, I got him as burley. And I got him as one of those big burly meatheads that don't know [00:55:56] Speaker A: how to say strength. If he was so strong. [00:55:59] Speaker B: Well, the Lord came upon him numerous times. [00:56:02] Speaker A: Look at him. He's a big guy. [00:56:05] Speaker B: Yeah. But he did things that you just don't do. I mean, whip. Whip somebody with a thousand men. With a donkey. Jawbone of a donkey. Lift the city gates. [00:56:14] Speaker A: You gotta be pretty agile. So you gotta be. [00:56:16] Speaker B: Yeah, but you lift the city gates and carry them on your back. Ah, homeboy, even if you're skinny, if you do that, you ought to be building up some muscle. [00:56:24] Speaker A: That's the mirror. Yeah. [00:56:25] Speaker B: Well, I think. I think homeboy was. [00:56:28] Speaker C: Because he makes an America. [00:56:30] Speaker B: He makes too many stupid mistakes. So what about you? [00:56:35] Speaker C: New Testament? I think I'd go Peter. I think me and I like him. I see a lot of. Peter's got a lot of Garrett in him or vice versa. He likes to promise first and then find out if he can back it up later. [00:56:47] Speaker B: Yeah, the first name later. [00:56:49] Speaker C: I told mom the other day, though. So, you know, we give Peter a lot of a flight. But, you know, he also. He went. He stepped out in his faith a lot. [00:56:58] Speaker B: Yes, he did. [00:56:58] Speaker C: And he stumbled a lot. [00:56:59] Speaker B: Yes, he did. [00:57:00] Speaker C: But you step out. Nobody else got out of the boats. But I told her he sure enough [00:57:04] Speaker B: wrote some fine works after. Yeah, after Christ was a leader in the church. I mean. Yeah, Peter's a strong, strong. [00:57:14] Speaker C: I think me and Peter would be a really dangerous duo. I mean, it'd be a lot of bad. There might be some good moments in it, but there'd be. It'd be a highlight reel. Good or bad. Your top 10. Not top 10. [00:57:25] Speaker B: And there's a reason that. Well. And you know, it wasn't necessarily a missionary like Paul. [00:57:30] Speaker A: Right. [00:57:31] Speaker B: That wasn't Peter style. [00:57:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:33] Speaker B: Paul was given in Silas. They're given to traveling and telling Peter. I think he was. You know. And it may be that. I don't know why you think. I think it might have been. He had so much Jew in him. Jewish. That he needed to be with the early church because he sure enough didn't do well with the Gentiles. [00:57:51] Speaker A: Sometimes I think he was too legalistic. Could have been for sure. [00:57:58] Speaker B: Judy. That Judaism part of it is. [00:58:00] Speaker A: And took Paul to get him. Finally get him out of that Yeah, I think he. He was. That was his biggest problem. And. And two, probably he was more. He did say a lot of things that he. He didn't really think through. He thought more of himself than he. Than he should have. [00:58:24] Speaker B: But he did have a dream one day that God showed him the sheet from heaven and he did go to Cornelius House. So it wasn't so. But it took him a while. [00:58:32] Speaker A: Yeah. But he was almost like he was [00:58:34] Speaker C: still had to be dragged. [00:58:36] Speaker A: But yeah, it was like it wasn't like. Okay, well I'm going over there. Yeah. Check me out again. [00:58:42] Speaker B: Well, three sheets coming down this. [00:58:44] Speaker A: I don't know that don't say. Am I hallucinating? When? Now. Now that we've answered that. [00:58:50] Speaker B: No, he didn't do his Old Testament. [00:58:52] Speaker C: I ended my Old Testament. So Old Testament. There's a lot of good ones in the Old Testament. [00:58:58] Speaker B: Plenty good ones. [00:58:59] Speaker C: My first instinct is Solomon. I really like his writings. [00:59:03] Speaker A: That's good. [00:59:04] Speaker C: Except for Song of Solomon, but. [00:59:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:06] Speaker C: Talked about that. Still love Proverbs. Love Ecclesiastes. Something about Solomon. I mean dude, how could you be men? You get. [00:59:13] Speaker A: Yes. [00:59:14] Speaker C: You get with. You ask for wisdom. You get wisdom and then you use your wisdom to. On a thousand wisdom girlfriends. [00:59:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:20] Speaker C: And then in the end of it you kind of realize that you. [00:59:23] Speaker B: And in the end really average king. When it was all said and done. [00:59:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:28] Speaker B: Why is this guy. Yeah. [00:59:31] Speaker C: Another one I think would be Joseph. [00:59:33] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a. [00:59:34] Speaker C: He endured. I would man. [00:59:37] Speaker B: He ought to be number one on your suffering list. [00:59:40] Speaker C: Yeah. You talk about suffering. How did you. That'd be my question. How did you stay faithful through all of that? It seemed like the. Every time you turn around something else. [00:59:46] Speaker A: Yes, that's a. That's a good one. [00:59:48] Speaker B: So is he going to be your number one guy now? [00:59:50] Speaker A: He's going to be. He's in. In the three top threes. [00:59:55] Speaker B: It's a good choice though. [00:59:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:56] Speaker B: I do like Joseph. [00:59:57] Speaker A: Yeah, he did have a lot. Why me? He's the person that I would say would be the person that would. Had a legitimate reason of saying why me? [01:00:07] Speaker B: But he never did. [01:00:08] Speaker C: Yeah, I. I don't think he ever really. [01:00:10] Speaker B: In the scriptures anyway. [01:00:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:00:12] Speaker A: Well now besides Jesus who identified with. No. What New Testament character and what Old Testament character. [01:00:22] Speaker B: Oh wow. [01:00:22] Speaker C: That's all in. [01:00:23] Speaker B: That's very difficult. I want to. [01:00:26] Speaker C: I want to say for the New Testament identify. [01:00:29] Speaker B: You got your hands from me. Yeah, I've got. Just go ahead and that might be the way to answer that. [01:00:35] Speaker C: Is somebody else okay, yeah, that would be an interesting. [01:00:39] Speaker B: I'm featuring Nicodemus for you or not Nick Zacchaeus. [01:00:42] Speaker A: This. I would say. [01:00:51] Speaker B: No, for real, I'm trying to think because that is a hard question to answer for yourself. [01:00:56] Speaker C: That's true. [01:00:58] Speaker B: It really is. Because I mean yes, I can see. I relate to Peter. I get that because I think you do. [01:01:05] Speaker A: I think the really the correct answer for me is is there's not one because I can identify with all of them. Most of them. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I can be a Samson, you know, or I can be a peer. Not thinking. I can be Paul Prideful. I mean they all have my characteristics. [01:01:29] Speaker B: I can see their downfalls in myself. Hey, look and say what you will about me here Samson, he made Hebrews 11. He's in the hall of faith, so. [01:01:40] Speaker A: Yeah, but it cost him some eyes. [01:01:42] Speaker B: Yeah, it cost him a whole lot. [01:01:44] Speaker A: Right. He needed to get rid of those eyes beforehand. [01:01:47] Speaker B: Well he, he sure did have a form. [01:01:50] Speaker A: But the ones that I can't probably identify with two and we mentioned them is Daniel because I don't see anything where he kind of struggled with. [01:02:03] Speaker C: And what about the lines at the end? [01:02:05] Speaker B: I mean he didn't struggle, he struggled physically. But spiritually no sins recorded against him that he did. Now granted he's human. [01:02:14] Speaker A: So he now Joseph. Maybe because he had a pride issue early on or did he do. He finished well. But so I like a little bit with him. But there's some that I could identify you know a lot with David. David was just crazy. Yeah. Which is. I'm. I'm crazy too. But that's what Solomon, he turned his back on the Lord. I've done that. You know Absalom, one of the most good looking person in the Bible. I mean I can. [01:02:52] Speaker B: That's how you relate. [01:02:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I can identify with that. The long hair. [01:02:58] Speaker B: But you know I think that is the one thing I've always loved about the scriptures is most of the time these heroes of the faith and these men that we study and their relationship with God. The whole. The star of the Bible is God but we have these co stars or lesser stars being Abraham and Jacob, they all move clay feet. And that's what I love about the Bible is it doesn't now it comes back in Hebrews 11 it says by faith Abraham left his home and didn't know where he was going. Yeah, we see that. But at the same time we also know the rest of the story. By faith he did that. But also by flesh he lied to Pharaoh several times. By flesh. He did this. You know, we can know that they're not perfect. [01:03:41] Speaker A: And you know, Isaac mimicked him because he lied too. [01:03:48] Speaker C: You know, it's. [01:03:49] Speaker A: You have to watch ritual. You. Sometimes you've got to. I mean, I don't want to make a sermon on that. [01:03:55] Speaker B: And then if you really want to play that out to the next one man. He was a deceiver from the beginning. He just climbed a tree. [01:04:01] Speaker A: Oh, he. He perfected it. [01:04:02] Speaker B: Yeah, he. He climbed a tree to tell you lie rather than stay on ground. He's truth. [01:04:06] Speaker A: It's care. You know, sometimes our Jacob children will. Did deceiver, will follow us. And so we have to be careful on our example. [01:04:16] Speaker B: Yes, they will. [01:04:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:18] Speaker C: It's funny too, if you were to ask me. So for the longest time, I had read the Gospel, Genesis and probably the ten Commandments, and I'm not sure some of the psalms, some of the proverbs, probably. But as far as like really knowing different, you know, knowing the entire Bible, I didn't. That's the only ones I really knew. [01:04:35] Speaker B: Right. [01:04:36] Speaker C: So at that time, if you'd ask me who I ident. Who I identify with, I would have said Abraham, because at that point, I remember I only made it to Genesis. [01:04:45] Speaker A: Right. [01:04:45] Speaker C: And through Genesis, I was thinking, yeah, I appreciate Abraham because he was really messed up, made a lot of really bad decisions, but he had strong faith, Right. I can relate to that. And then as I read, read the rest of the Old Testament, I realized he's just like the first person that did that. But the entire Old Testament is full of that same pattern. Great faith, great mistakes written repeat over and over and over again. [01:05:04] Speaker B: And, and, and I think that's the beauty of it is, look, God ain't expecting us to be perfect because we won't be. [01:05:12] Speaker A: Right? And there, there are some sub characters that I could identify with that probably never did turn out right or get their stuff together. Like Pharaoh, he is. His heart was hard. [01:05:28] Speaker B: A bit different than that, though. [01:05:30] Speaker A: Well, I'm just saying. I've said I had, you know, I'm just saying on both sides of the ones that you wouldn't think you can identify with, you can identify Pharaoh, you know, hardness of heart. I've had that before. [01:05:43] Speaker B: Yeah, not to that degree. [01:05:45] Speaker A: Well, I don't know what degree he [01:05:47] Speaker B: had, but nine plagues and he still says nine out of 10th plague, he says, all right, leave. Then he changes his mind. That's pretty hard. Heart I don't know that we've ever had. I hope you've never had that hard a heart. [01:06:00] Speaker A: I mean, that you would if I did. I'm over it. But [01:06:04] Speaker B: I mean that. But I know that's the nth degree of hard heart. [01:06:08] Speaker A: I mean, but you, you would think. But he still had. He still had a choice till the day he died. If he, if he didn't make it, [01:06:16] Speaker B: he had choice today as a whole army died at the bottom of the sea to too. [01:06:19] Speaker A: But I don't know if he died in the bottom of the sea. [01:06:24] Speaker B: Well, let's face facts. When it was all said and done, all the livestock's gone, the land has been ravaged, the land stinks from frogs and flooding, and the blood or the water becomes like blood, and his whole army's at the bottom of the sea. My man lost everything because of hard heart. [01:06:43] Speaker A: But he was just deceived. [01:06:46] Speaker B: He did it to himself first. [01:06:47] Speaker A: Yes. And I don't know if God hardened his heart. I think, no, he. [01:06:51] Speaker B: He. He hardened his heart up until the sixth commandment, but then it switches and he does it and the Lord does it at the same time. [01:06:58] Speaker A: I don't know really what that means. [01:07:00] Speaker B: I think what it means is God has not given him a space to repent at that time. I think, I think he could have easily said, all right, I'm gonna let him go. [01:07:08] Speaker A: Well, yeah, well, explain that to me because I'm really not sure. Or he hardened his heart. God hardened his heart. And I know God comes later, but claim that. [01:07:17] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I really understand the plague. You got to understand what happened in Exodus 3 and Exodus 6 and 7, Exodus 3, burning bush. God tells Moses, I'm going to free my people. You go down. Moses goes down before Pharaoh and he says, hey, let my people go for three days into the wilderness and worship me. The Lord Pharaoh says, I don't know this Lord. Lord, and I don't need to listen to him. Well, it's right then that God begins to say, oh, he is going to know who I am. And so first round bout, or if you want to call it a prelim bout, or maybe it was the pre show bout, is Moses goes before Pharaoh again, throws his staff down, it comes to snake. Well, the Egyptian magicians can do that, but Aaron's staff eats their staff. So. All right, so God trumps that. That one. Well, Pharaoh says, this ain't nothing but parlor tricks. I'm good. I ain't gonna let you people go. And again, remember, this is him saying, I'm gonna let basically 2 million slaves go that are building my cities. And if they're gone, who's gonna make my bricks? What do you sell on the walls? [01:08:22] Speaker A: Which I think is. And I'm not sure, maybe not if the Israelites. There might be more Israelites or there's beginning to get more Israelites in Egypt. [01:08:33] Speaker B: They're great. Not number. [01:08:34] Speaker A: Great number. I don't know if that. [01:08:36] Speaker B: And they're becoming. Hey, if. What he gets worried about is if he gets an enemy and that enemy can somehow talk to the Israelites to fight with them. Okay, that's 2 million enemies you got right there on top of the other nation. All right, so. So God says, all right, he's going to know who I am. And he even tells Moses, as Moses goes before him, defeated, because he told him, you go, go. You got time to think of freedom. Then go get your straw and your brick. So then Moses spends the end of chapter five crying the blues. God, you ain't, you ain't delivered on your promise. You sent me down here. Why'd you even do that, God? Because you haven't delivered nothing. Well, God tells him in chapter six, I will do this. Moses, you packed for a weekend trip. Hold on. You packed for a weekend trip, but you needed to pack a 40, 40 year supply. [01:09:25] Speaker A: So up to the six or through chapter six. Oh, chapter six. Okay, I thought you meant six plague. [01:09:31] Speaker B: No, no, chapter six. [01:09:32] Speaker A: Up to now. [01:09:33] Speaker B: Then what happens is then you have the showdown with the staff. Then you have turning the water to blood. Well, the magicians do that. Then you have the second one, which is frogs. The magicians do that. The third one is the gnats or flying insects. The magicians can't do that. Pharaoh begins to have a little bit of a turn, but then he comes back and he changes his mind. I'm going to let you know, sometimes what would happen is, okay, tomorrow I'm going to let y' all go. And then the plague ends. I change my mind, right? And the whole time, God, God is just building up time after time, letting him know. And I really believe from the jump, I believe God knew I'm going to send 10 different plagues. Because if you look at each one of those plagues, it is aimed at one of the Egypt's false gods. [01:10:22] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I don't question that. God already knew what it's going to do. Yeah, I mean, that's that all. [01:10:28] Speaker B: So, so in the, in the first six is Pharaoh who's hardening his heart. He's like, like, okay, no, I'm not going to be. Because the Egyptians Admired a hardness of heart. The Egyptians admired. Oh, we're hard headed and stubborn. Not, not because they're stupid, but because we are going to stand firm. We're Egypt. Nobody's going to boss us around. We kind of have a little bit of that now. [01:10:54] Speaker C: That sounds familiar. [01:10:55] Speaker A: Yeah, he says a lot of things, but I think he just likes to make, make people. [01:11:00] Speaker C: Oh well, I think, but see, I think that's actually a common, that's a commonly celebrated trait in society today that, that pride that we ain't gonna be bullied. [01:11:11] Speaker B: Yeah, we're Egypt. Yeah, yeah. You're a bunch of slaves. Why, why would I listen to the God of a bunch of slaves? [01:11:16] Speaker A: When did the plague and I can't remember which one. When did it stop being in the land of go Israel? [01:11:23] Speaker B: That should have been either three or four. I think it was four. [01:11:26] Speaker A: Okay. [01:11:27] Speaker B: Because four was livestock and the Israelites livestock was gone. Then you had darkness. [01:11:34] Speaker A: Then you had those just in the Egypt area. Yeah. [01:11:37] Speaker B: Just where the Egyptians were. [01:11:39] Speaker A: I don't know how that happened, but [01:11:40] Speaker B: that's pretty, that's pretty amazing. [01:11:42] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, wow. [01:11:44] Speaker B: But land of Goshen was safe. And so then that's when Pharaoh even sent investigators into Goshen to say how is it that they're cattle was, you know, not destroyed. Ours were. And I think he begins putting this thing together that that's also when God begins to harden his heart of. Hey, no, no, you're going to go and you're going to see all these that I got for you. [01:12:10] Speaker A: You know, I could, I, I could see how at first, because I'm thinking about a situation that I was in here recently, how first you're, you hurt or you, you, you can, you repent it, but after you sleep on or think about it for a while, you become angry and then you become bitter. I mean I, I'm trying to, with what I was going through, I was trying to associate that with what I was going through because I've seen, I've seen people where something happens to, to them. And I don't know if I'm being clear on this. Where the first thing is shock, right. You know, catches you by surprise or you've been hurt. The next stage becomes you get angry. Right. And that final stage, it goes underground and to bitterness. And I wonder if, if that last plague that the son, was he bitter now? Did he become bitter and that's why he went to chase? [01:13:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know that that is necessarily the same thing. I don't know I mean, what you're talking about there would be Hebrews 13, where it says, but don't let the root of bitterness take hold, because when it does, it defiles many. I don't know that it is necessarily that that's going on there as much as it is. No, when God hardened his heart, it was. There's no chance of repenting now. And even after number six, Pharaoh still does some of it. I don't know that there is a specific pattern says, okay, it's Pharaoh, Pharaoh, Pharaoh, God, God, God, God. No, I think it was a little bit of sort of blending in. Yeah. Yeah. [01:14:09] Speaker A: Well, I was. [01:14:11] Speaker B: But you got to get pretty bad some of the things that went through. I think when. I mean, when you talked about when the flood took place. All right, that's the whole livelihood. Because fish died, the land stunk. I mean, not flood, but the blood. Water became blood now became blood. Then you had all the frogs and it says the land stunk. I mean, these are. These are things that God is attacking each one of their major systems to where. When they're lying. Livestock. That's your economy. I mean, your livelihood with the water. You can't drink water for a while because you don't have any. Then you have all the cattle. I mean, this put them in economic and all kinds of rules. If you stop and think about it. And military. I mean, your army's at the bottom of the sea, dude. [01:15:01] Speaker A: Now, I'm going to say this because I want to understand it, okay? But then when Jesus says. And because this is probably where the kingdom was ripped from Judah to. And I can't remember, I have to get to the chapter where the kingdom was from Israel. And then Jesus started, you know, going towards the. The Gentiles. But it's a blaspheming of the Holy Ghost because that word blaspheme, right? Nobody. I have not really found a good definition for that because I don't think. Nobody really knows. But my thinking is when he's talking to the Pharisees and I'll tie it back to. To the Pharaoh. But my thinking is the blaspheme of the Holy Ghost is a constant rejection. And because you're not rejecting Christ, you're not rejecting God, Although. [01:16:04] Speaker B: But that's what it ends up being. [01:16:06] Speaker A: But that's. The Holy Spirit is the one that draws from. [01:16:09] Speaker B: So you're saying no to the wooing. [01:16:13] Speaker A: Once you do that, that happens in my thinking, that happens at death because there's no repentance. Or can you still be happened before then. Okay, so that's my question is now I'm gonna. [01:16:32] Speaker B: That's when you're accountable for. It is a death. [01:16:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:34] Speaker B: But I think it can happen before then that you've made that decision. [01:16:37] Speaker A: Now I'm gonna take that whole scenario [01:16:39] Speaker B: to the pharaoh and I think it's a little bit. But I don't think it's the same because apples and. Or I think it's apples and oranges, really. I mean, I think. I think the similarities are there. [01:16:51] Speaker A: That's what. [01:16:52] Speaker B: But it ain't the same. [01:16:53] Speaker A: No, I mean, it's not. [01:16:54] Speaker B: Because I don't know that God was ever giving him a. And again, that's a pretty risky statement I'm about to make. I don't know that God was. Maybe God was giving him a chance to repent. I'm not sure there was much whether or not he had a chance. I'm sure God was going to give him a little bit. [01:17:10] Speaker A: I think God gives everybody. [01:17:12] Speaker B: But I think he had closed the door pretty quick. [01:17:14] Speaker A: Well, and I'm only going back to Romans. [01:17:16] Speaker B: Right. [01:17:17] Speaker A: One where everybody. [01:17:18] Speaker B: Again, we're trying to apply New Testament salvation to an Old Testament. [01:17:22] Speaker A: That's why I'm being very careful with how I. [01:17:26] Speaker B: You can't go that way. I mean, that doesn't. It's different. Whole different mode of how God deals with us. So it'd be dangerous to do that. [01:17:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And I agree. [01:17:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:38] Speaker A: But do you believe that everybody in the Old Testament had a chance to. Because, and I say this because there's a lot of things. Although the Bible, the Old Testament is written for the Jews, there's a lot of times. Times that God had Gentiles being, you know, converted. Right. Do you think that everybody. And I don't know why. I know I'm going down a rabbit hole this time. Everybody that has ever lived at some point in time with the knowledge of that they knew, had opportunity to know God. Because this is what we're getting into. Why would a loving God not give me a chance? [01:18:23] Speaker B: All right. Well, you're getting into general revelation. [01:18:28] Speaker A: I know. [01:18:28] Speaker B: And general revelation says that everybody should be able to see from creation that there is a God. [01:18:33] Speaker A: Yes. [01:18:34] Speaker B: Does that mean that every Hittite born had an opportunity to respond? I don't know. I don't think so. At the same time, God did send or. And again, even in that, there's a different dichotomy. You've got the law versus pre law. So when the law came and God established Israel, Israel was to Be a light unto the nations. So did those nations know about a God that is special in the nation of Israel? Most of them that were around them did. I'm sure the Philistines knew exactly who this God was. [01:19:08] Speaker A: It's a God question. And I can't answer it because I [01:19:11] Speaker B: don't think there is a answer. Other side. Yeah. That God can answer it. But I mean I'm. I'm just trying to give us some clues of. Okay. I don't know that anybody is without excuse. I think the Gospel. I think the Bible makes that clear. [01:19:24] Speaker A: That's. I. I do too. I do too. [01:19:26] Speaker B: That. That maybe you don't know the whole story, but you're. Without excuse. [01:19:30] Speaker A: That's correct. You're judged on. But by what you know. I. Yeah. [01:19:38] Speaker B: And I hate to even go that far. [01:19:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I do too. Because I. Anything after death. I don't know a whole lot about [01:19:47] Speaker B: anything before that so far. [01:19:51] Speaker A: That's true. But I knew even less. Right. I can't. Or anything outside of this earthly world because like Satan and Job, when we were just talking about that. Job was talking about the devil comes up there to God's throne. Sure. I don't know. I can't. Don't know how that happens. [01:20:11] Speaker B: Right. [01:20:12] Speaker A: I'm. I only see that one time. I don't know if that happens all the time or. Or what's going on. I can't. [01:20:18] Speaker B: And what kind of meeting is that? [01:20:20] Speaker A: Like a. [01:20:20] Speaker B: A monthly or quarterly meeting that he has that. [01:20:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Right. [01:20:25] Speaker B: Everybody reports. It's kind of like the year leave. Yeah. [01:20:28] Speaker C: I automatically kind of think of staff meeting. God and God and the devil is being so far opposites that they never interact with one another. You got one's good and one's evil and they're opposite camp. But then it's like. Like. Well, Carolina Duke meet twice a year. [01:20:40] Speaker B: There's. [01:20:40] Speaker C: There's times that you're going to. In interact your. Or engage your enemy face to face. I guess. And I guess. [01:20:47] Speaker B: I don't know if this makes it sound like it was a scheduled meeting. [01:20:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:20:51] Speaker B: All the council comes in. [01:20:53] Speaker C: That was one of the. One of the things that kind of stood out to me too. Is that why God brought up the conversation. He said he'd been roaming the earth and he said, have you considered my servant Job? Satan hadn't brought up anything other than saying he'd been roaming the earth and God initiated it. And it. That's just one of those things that I wish there was a little bit more. [01:21:13] Speaker A: Oh yeah. [01:21:14] Speaker B: And here's the thing. God also in a way allowed it because Satan said, well, you got a hedge of protection around him. No wonder he worships you and blesses you then. All right, let's take it off. [01:21:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:21:27] Speaker B: I mean, God removes that. And so there's a. I mean, God is behind this. This in a way, not responsible for it, but he is behind. And again, that's where you got to trust that God, even though he may bring these hurts and heartaches in our life, he's got something behind it that you can trust that it's going to be worth something. [01:21:45] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:21:46] Speaker A: I would say Romans is just quote to Romans. [01:21:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I did, but I didn't want to quote it. [01:21:50] Speaker A: Okay. [01:21:50] Speaker B: Yes, it gets quoted. I won't say that so much. Not to be bad, but. [01:21:55] Speaker A: No, it is abused. Yes, it could be abused. Like I could do all things through. Christ is abused. [01:22:01] Speaker B: Or God works all things together. [01:22:02] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I'll ask anything in my name and you shall have it as a be. [01:22:06] Speaker B: It gets abused and we. And we claim it for. Oh, no, I'm having such a bad, selfish, you know. [01:22:12] Speaker A: Selfish. [01:22:12] Speaker B: My phone doesn't work. Yeah, you know, God can use that. I mean, I'm not saying he can't, but that's. That's. [01:22:19] Speaker A: Yeah, there you go. [01:22:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:22:22] Speaker A: It's the only thing that works in my life. [01:22:28] Speaker B: Oh, the counselor. [01:22:30] Speaker C: This is not a serious topic whatsoever. But just while we're talking about phones and things, Christian has about destroyed his. The other day or his little ipod thing because I go in the shower and. Or he's in the shower and I'm going to the bathroom for something and I can hear his phone going off and he has had it in the shower with him on the floor with no. [01:22:49] Speaker B: No waterproof case. [01:22:51] Speaker C: I mean, he's got a case, but that still ain't. [01:22:52] Speaker B: Yeah, you got to have. [01:22:53] Speaker C: That's in case it gets a little wet. He had it literally sitting on the. The floor of the shower watching him. I said, dude, you but stuck it in Ross. It's working now. But man. [01:23:01] Speaker A: But still. [01:23:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:23:03] Speaker B: Come on, man. You can take a shower without him. [01:23:04] Speaker C: Kids and their phone. [01:23:05] Speaker B: I'm telling attached getting ready to. [01:23:09] Speaker A: This is a whole point. [01:23:10] Speaker C: Well, let's just wrap the podcast. I think we're about done. So that'll be a lively discussion. [01:23:15] Speaker B: You can go two shows, can't you? [01:23:16] Speaker C: We. That's the last two in a row we've done have been an hour and a half plus so we could do [01:23:21] Speaker B: that if you need to yeah, because I am going to be out of town April 6th and April 20th. [01:23:27] Speaker A: So why are you going? Where are you going? [01:23:31] Speaker B: You write a book? [01:23:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [01:23:33] Speaker B: April 6th through the 9th. Renee and I'm going to take her on her spring break. We're going out of town together. [01:23:38] Speaker A: Nice. [01:23:39] Speaker C: I'm just going to guess that the church office don't care about this part. So we off. Bye. Off. [01:23:44] Speaker A: Yeah, Tim and I enjoyed it. I mean, I. Did he actually work? Yeah, he did more than I did. I. I edit. [01:23:59] Speaker C: We made it 32 seconds. [01:24:02] Speaker B: Our. [01:24:03] Speaker C: Awesome. [01:24:04] Speaker A: Did he tell you or did. [01:24:05] Speaker B: No, I got. [01:24:06] Speaker C: I got sources. [01:24:07] Speaker A: Were they unnamed sources? [01:24:10] Speaker B: You probably know if you name them, they've already been mentioned. [01:24:13] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:24:14] Speaker C: Well, anyway, if you name your sources, they won't be sources for long. [01:24:18] Speaker B: Record this. You look like you've lost a little. [01:24:23] Speaker C: That's the off black. I'm not wearing this. I wear a black shirt. That's why I've been wearing a lot of black lately. It helps. [01:24:30] Speaker A: I hadn't been to Hardee's, and that's the problem. [01:24:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:24:33] Speaker C: Oh, man, you're missing out. [01:24:34] Speaker B: That. [01:24:34] Speaker C: That pulled. [01:24:36] Speaker A: I had not been to Hardee since last time we met. Yeah, that's why I hadn't lost that much weight. [01:24:42] Speaker C: And I tried it because I went right, right from here to Hardee's and I saw they had that pulled pork. And I texted you guys in the drive thru while I was waiting, but once. [01:24:51] Speaker A: Did you see the wrapper, too? Once. [01:24:53] Speaker C: Once I got it, I didn't come back up for air to even see if I texted back until I got back home. And that thing is. Was long on it. It probably made it three minutes out of the parking lot. That was good, though. Get back on here. Don't say anything stupid now. We're. We're out of. We are out of edit mode. [01:25:09] Speaker B: I say every wedding I do. All right, I'm going to turn the microphone on. Don't let anybody say anything stupid.
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