Faith Plus Action

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Not a, like, you know, big divine sign type thing, but just. I felt like there's a theme that I've been getting from God. The last few months, it's been this question of, okay, you. You've read the Bible. That's great. Good for you. Took you 40 years, but you finally read it. You've even. [00:00:17] Speaker B: You must have read it. [00:00:18] Speaker A: I read slow. I read slow. [00:00:21] Speaker C: Well, it just took a little 20 year. [00:00:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:24] Speaker B: 40 years. [00:00:25] Speaker C: Whoa. [00:00:26] Speaker A: But there's. Okay, you've read it and you've taught it in children's church and Sunday school and stuff like. [00:00:32] Speaker C: And you know what? [00:00:32] Speaker A: Now do you believe it? [00:00:34] Speaker C: I think that's the key. That faith plus action equals what you truly believe. [00:00:43] Speaker A: So Kenny's business. [00:00:44] Speaker C: You came with a whole lot of stuff, son. [00:00:45] Speaker B: Man, I've been. You've been gone. I haven't seen you in, what. How many. I haven't seen you. [00:00:51] Speaker C: Well, that. That ain't my fault. [00:00:53] Speaker B: No, I did see you. Actually, I take that back. I did see you twice. Three times. [00:00:58] Speaker C: Three days, all weekend. [00:00:59] Speaker B: I know, man. It's. [00:01:03] Speaker A: We even ate supper together. [00:01:04] Speaker C: Couldn't talk. But we ate supper together. [00:01:06] Speaker B: We couldn't talk. What we want to talk about. [00:01:08] Speaker C: That's right. [00:01:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:09] Speaker B: Yeah. We had to go to. He did the. He was amazing. Man, you gotta listen to this. Have you ever heard a preacher preach less than their prayer? [00:01:20] Speaker A: Well, you told me he did. You told me that his. His part was less than the prayer. [00:01:26] Speaker B: It was like. [00:01:27] Speaker A: But was it a long prayer or a short part? [00:01:29] Speaker B: It was a normal prayer. [00:01:30] Speaker A: No, normal prayer. [00:01:32] Speaker B: You think so we. He had to earn his money. Yeah. [00:01:35] Speaker C: I went into, you know, praying for his ministry and praying for the church. [00:01:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:39] Speaker C: A lot longer. My part won't. That long because what else you gonna say at the end of a wedding? [00:01:44] Speaker B: I know. And he had to get home. This is Friday night. He had to get home to study his speech. That was two sentences. [00:01:54] Speaker C: No, I said I had to get home, study my sermon. Big difference. [00:01:59] Speaker B: But this is on Friday. Yeah, well, two sentences. Friday, they were short sentences. [00:02:05] Speaker C: Friday is note day. Like, Saturday is moving day at the Masters. Friday is note day. On my sermons. I'm writing my notes. [00:02:14] Speaker B: Why didn't you. [00:02:14] Speaker C: Then Saturday, I'm reviewing. [00:02:16] Speaker B: Why didn't you let Renee drive you home from the beach? [00:02:19] Speaker C: Cause she ain't gonna drive, I can tell you that. [00:02:24] Speaker B: Did you come home Thursday? Came on Thursday, so. Oh, that's. Yeah, we set it up after. After Bible study, I think is. Yeah. I mean. [00:02:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:36] Speaker B: Thursday after they left, started Setting me up. [00:02:39] Speaker A: Yeah, y' all were over here setting up. [00:02:41] Speaker B: I was waiting for him. I didn't know why it was. I don't know why it took so long. That last one he did was up to 12 o' clock or so. Were you. Did you leave when they still going [00:02:55] Speaker C: when you left Bible study? [00:02:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I left for two out of the three. That was actually one of the things I was gonna talk about today. I left. I stayed for the last one all the way to the end and it lasted to about 11:45, I think. [00:03:07] Speaker C: Goodness. [00:03:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:09] Speaker C: I don't know how long questions or is it. [00:03:10] Speaker B: No, it's. [00:03:11] Speaker A: I mean, that was a little longer because they did a survey and they had. [00:03:15] Speaker B: Survey. Yeah, I didn't get a chance to fill it out. [00:03:19] Speaker C: Well, oftentimes, yeah, I was gonna say [00:03:22] Speaker A: I left the two. Two weeks before the first one that they did. I was. I had a meeting I had to get back for. The second one though was, I thought, an interesting podcast topic maybe. So I think that I don't bring it up to sound defensive or self righteous. I'm not claiming that I was right or wrong on this, but I thought it was a good debate we could have. Anyway. [00:03:45] Speaker B: Okay, let's have it. So throw it on me. [00:03:47] Speaker A: On the way to Bible study, second week of the three. I had a tee time that afternoon for like 1:20. [00:03:54] Speaker C: Okay. And you were playing with. Oh, shoot, what's his name? Boy from Evansboro. [00:03:59] Speaker A: Yes. [00:04:00] Speaker C: Yeah, I met him. [00:04:00] Speaker A: Oh, did you? [00:04:01] Speaker C: Yeah, that was the day I had to come in and work the sound. [00:04:03] Speaker A: Oh, that's right. Yeah. [00:04:04] Speaker C: And that wasn't the. That that was like the week. No, it started. [00:04:08] Speaker A: Yep. So the week that I'm talking about was. Would have been two weeks after that. [00:04:10] Speaker C: Okay. [00:04:12] Speaker A: He came with me to Bible study and then two weeks later we played again. So had. There's another guy that I play a lot with who's a guy who I've talked about him or talked to him a lot of about church like that. He's kind of not really involved in church right now and doesn't really, you know, kind of figuring things out a little bit as far as what he believes and all that stuff. And we're on the way. I'm on the way to Bible study that morning and I get a text from him that says, can you play at 12 o'? Clock, whatever it was. [00:04:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:42] Speaker A: And I'm like, well, I was already playing at 120. Let me check and see if I can rearrange it. And I Checked with the other guy from Averageborough and said, hey, can you play at 12 instead? And he said, yeah. So I said, okay, yeah, we'll do that. And then I'm on here. I'm like, I'm gonna have to leave Bible study early. Kind of feel guilty for that in a way. But then I'm like, wait a minute. Good opportunity to get people together. And you know, I'm not saying that I'm just doing this to, you know, to evangelize my buddy or anything like that, but at the same time it's like, you know, to sit in a Bible study learning about how to share Jesus instead of going out and you're [00:05:19] Speaker C: putting it into practice and putting it into practice. And I think, I think the thing of it is, and that's sometimes, and nothing against, look, I'm all for evangelism training. I've taught evangelism training for 20 years. I mean I've done it off and on. And so I'm not against it. But part of me, I've always made the argument, listen, if you know enough to get saved, you know enough to share with someone how to be saved. And oftentimes it's just a matter of just opening your mouth. And I have found here lately it's been absolutely amazing the number of people that are coming to this church now, and they are zero church background, maybe nominal Catholic background, are coming here because people are inviting them. People are just taking the time to make friends and just, hey, shared Christ with them or either eventually get around to inviting them to church. I mean it's just, look, I'm not against it, but I think it's one of we. You, most people are adequately equipped, they just don't do it. And a class like that sometimes helps you to realize I can do this. [00:06:25] Speaker A: Yeah, well, to some extent, I mean it's. I've said this before, I think a little bit. I mean I try to just live my life the way I need to live my life. And if you do that, eventually it comes up whether you meant for it to or not. I mean it's something that, you know, Sunday was interesting. So I had signed up to bloody in the Solies masters Pro Am, 8 o'. [00:06:50] Speaker C: Clock. [00:06:50] Speaker A: Can you actually play it guessing on Solis? You can? Yeah, that's one of the courses. [00:06:54] Speaker C: I can't believe they let you do it. [00:06:55] Speaker A: So I, I signed up for the 8 o' clock block. I thought I'll go and get in, get out and then go to church. And that way I can get out and play in the afternoon and then get back in time to see the [00:07:06] Speaker C: end of the master. [00:07:06] Speaker A: So I was gonna have a full golf day and. [00:07:08] Speaker C: Yeah, what a day. [00:07:09] Speaker A: Well, the tournament lasted forever, and it was supposed to be done by 10, and I thought that was running long. Was only nine holes and it's like 10:30 and we're still on, like, 17. [00:07:19] Speaker C: Well, I was gonna say. I see. Yeah. [00:07:21] Speaker A: No, I was here. I don't think. No, I don't think so. [00:07:26] Speaker C: Okay. [00:07:26] Speaker A: I had children's church. [00:07:27] Speaker C: Yeah, I saw. Oh, okay. Yeah, I think I thought. I remember seeing. [00:07:30] Speaker A: Yeah, I didn't catch it during the green. [00:07:31] Speaker C: Okay. [00:07:32] Speaker A: Yeah, no, so I did get here, but I had to leave early. So at the end, I'm having to tell people, like, hey, is there anything I can. Can I, like, go ahead and play my last hole and get on out of here? I gotta go. Like, where you got. Go to church. I'm teaching children's church this morning. Yeah. So it's not. But it's one of those things, like, I'm not trying to go out of my way or anything about it. But the alternative is to what, just lie and say I got somewhere to be? And not. I mean, you're gonna. Your faith's gonna come up as you're just living your life. If you're. If it's a big enough partner. [00:07:59] Speaker C: I wholly, wholeheartedly agree. [00:08:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:02] Speaker C: And I think it's one of. I think Jesus put it this way and not. He didn't use these uncertain terms, but words. But I believe it is a fair way to say it is. What's on the inside's gonna come out. [00:08:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:15] Speaker C: Regardless of what. So if Jesus is on the inside and you love him with all your heart, mind, body and soul, it's going to come out eventually. You don't have to force it. And it's not. Now, I know there are times when I run into someone that, okay, how do I share a word here? Or maybe there's a question I can use. I get that. At the same time, most of the time, though, with most people, if you love Christ enough, you're going to hear it's going to come out. [00:08:43] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I agree, because what you're saying. Because that's happened to me. It's just the way you live your life and we. And just have the grocery store, have a blessed day, or, you know, just the way you talk, the way you present yourself, it just comes out. [00:09:00] Speaker C: And oftentimes it's questions they may ask you. I mean, the way it comes out of, you know, why are you so happy? Or, you know, case important. I think I've shared this. I was going to work one day down in Fayetteville, and man had a flat tire. Well, and he was an older man. I said, you know, I know business. Changing that tire. I pulled over beside him and changed everything for him. Got it up there, did him about half time. I know it took him. He was. He was old, a little bit older and feeble. And came time to get done, he said, man, I just want to say thank you. And I said, well, sir, you're certainly welcome. And he said, man, they sure are. He said, I'm glad to see there's some nice people in the world and that's. Or good people in the world. And that's when I said, gosh, that's too good to pass up, sir, I just want you to know the Bible says there is none good. No, not one. I said, but. But Christ saved me. And I said, that's one of the reasons I stopped today, is just because Christ changed my life. And I feel like it's something I should do to help you. And it. I mean, it opened up an opportunity for him that he already knew the Lord because he jumped in on that. But had he not, That's a perfect opportunity. And again, it was him saying, I'm just glad there's some good people in the world. Well, that's. Be listening. Yeah, that's. I think oftentimes those evangelism training needs to be. Listen well, listen to what people are saying. [00:10:19] Speaker A: I can't remember if we talked about this a couple of weeks ago or not, but when we first started doing this podcast, I think my thinking as a Christian was that your number one responsibility was helping other people to find Jesus. And that's part of it. [00:10:36] Speaker C: Evangelism is a big part of it, [00:10:38] Speaker A: but one that I think is equal. I think equally important is discipleship and growing in Christ together. And I say equally important. I don't know how to. If you're supposed to rank them or if you can rank them or whatever, but honestly, if you're growing each other's faith, and I don't even necessarily mean it as like teaching other people. We all learn from each other. Right. It's not like a ranking system of who's discipling who necessarily, but it's just having conversations with other believers. Sure. And when you have that conversation with a guy changing his tire, him already knowing the Lord, that doesn't mean it wasn't A successful conversation. [00:11:16] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:16] Speaker A: You still have an opportunity to grow in your faith and his faith from that fellowship also. [00:11:22] Speaker C: Well, I think somewhere along the way, over the last 20 years of me being in the ministry, I think the Lord really changed my view on a lot of things. In regard to what you just said and what I mean BY that is 20 years ago, oh, it's all about winning someone to Christ. You gotta have evangelism. Well, no. And through years of study and years of watching how God works, I go Back to Matthew 28, 19, 20. He doesn't say, go and win people to Christ. He says, go and make disciples. Discipleship is not just evangelism. Discipleship is me is, yes, one initial coming to Christ, but that ain't where faith ends. Then faith takes over. Then it becomes, I grow in Christ. And that's part of Everybody pours into you, and you pour into others, like you said. And so for me, someone asked me recently, well, y' all are growing as a church. What are y' all doing for evangelism? And I looked at him, I said, look, I don't mean to be ugly. I said, but I have found the best way for us is our folks are out and about. And as they go, they're sharing. They're sharing their life. They're inviting people to Christ. They're doing this. I said, I found we don't need necessarily hooks like, oh, we're having this event. None of those can work. And I'm not against them. But I have found the biggest thing that's helping us is it's word of mouth. It's people saying, hey, there's something going on over here. There's something going on in my life. Christ did this in my life. And if we'll do that, oftentimes is the best evangelism. And again, it's about being there and pouring your life into. And discipleship. [00:13:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:04] Speaker C: And again, I'm not. You know, there's some folks out there, oh, you got to be evangelist. I'm not saying that I'm all for evangelism. Yeah. I just know that I can get people saved. Somebody asked me the other day, and this is the truth. Somebody asked me the other day, are you ever upset that there's not a. Just an outpouring of people coming down the aisle? Because their response was, we thought there should be. And, man, why aren't people responding like that? Because it's sure the message, you know. And I said, I'm not preaching for that. [00:13:37] Speaker A: Yeah, my. [00:13:37] Speaker C: My goal is not to get People to respond at 11:45. Yeah, I could care less about that. I want you living at 11:45 on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday for the Lord. Because if you're growing and grow and serving the Lord out there, that'll take care of the, the, the revival. That'll take care of people's hearts being awakened to the Lord. And so I, man, I'm all the time about. Let's. Let's be about discipleship and helping people to grow in their relationship, not just the big numbers and the pow, pow, whiz, bang. [00:14:10] Speaker A: Also. That's the purpose of the title of the show, by the way, the other 167. And welcome to the other 167. There you go. Great segue into that, because that is exactly what the show is. That's where the name came from. It's not about 11 o' clock or 12 o' clock on Sunday. It's the other 167 hours of the week. Can you, can you live that way? And I think that you always say when you baptize somebody, this isn't the. Or you don't always say, I don't think this isn't the starting line. [00:14:36] Speaker C: This is the. This is. This is go. [00:14:38] Speaker A: I think Christians sometimes, though, look at that. We look at it as the finish line. Somebody gets saved, somebody is baptized, and we say, all right, they're in. And then we don't pay any more attention or put any more energy into that person because they're already saved. We go try to find another one. Well, I think that might be part of the reason that you got a lot of really weak Christians. Sometimes it is. That don't. [00:14:56] Speaker C: And there's nothing wrong with that. Of, hey, I'm so excited he came to Christ. Now who's next? I'm working on. [00:15:02] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:03] Speaker C: But yeah, there's still the process of they've got to grow. [00:15:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:07] Speaker C: And you're exactly right. If you don't do that, you're short shortchange in the process. [00:15:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:12] Speaker C: Because it is more than just getting people saved. Yeah, it's saved and getting them to the finish line. [00:15:18] Speaker B: And it's also. I like what you said. You're not looking for a lot of people because we can't handle it. We can't handle 50 people coming in here with discipleship and everything. People. 50 people coming up and getting saved. I mean, the discipleship, I don't think we were set up to handle, to be able to disciple that many people at one time. [00:15:41] Speaker A: Well, if that happened, I think the Lord would figure that one out. Yeah. [00:15:45] Speaker C: I mean, hey, 3,000 got saved in one time. Yeah. [00:15:48] Speaker B: Yeah. But it was chaos, too. [00:15:49] Speaker C: It was chaos. And that's going to be the thing. I mean, when you have that kind of thing, you do have chaos. And as you have the same thing like we have, you're going to have chaos there, too, because you don't know where to put everybody in. [00:16:01] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:16:02] Speaker C: 24. Don't know where am I going to put 24 people? [00:16:06] Speaker B: But we should prepare ourselves for that. [00:16:08] Speaker C: Exactly, exactly. But. But no, I think there is a major difference between just winning people to Christ. And there are people, whether they're pastors or whatnot, that they. They look at people as a notch on a gun belt where. I don't know that I want to. Numbers. I don't want to. I don't want to. Just how many people got. Say how many people got baptized? That's important. [00:16:29] Speaker A: It's your score. [00:16:30] Speaker C: But are we. Are we. Are we. Are we growing them? [00:16:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:34] Speaker C: And the way to measure that is, are they in turn making disciples? Because that's really what you want to be, is you want to be a disciple making church, and it's disciples. Making disciples who are making disciples, who are making disciples. So that it continues on generation after generation. [00:16:51] Speaker A: Well, and growing in your own in Christ likeness also. So that we are a better reflection of him and his love. I think that's which. I was thinking about something. This was actually another podcast topic, I guess, but I was thinking about the. The stereotype you get a lot of people. And I know I heard Kenny say it before, you know, people always calling Christians hypocrites. And, you know, we can be hypocritical sometimes. I'll say about the other day, I was like, there's. That's fair. There's a lot of Christians that can be hypocritical. Another thing, though, is that I think the outside world doesn't necessarily have an accurate depiction of what Christianity is. So then they think we're being hypocritical because they're presuming what we believe when we may not. When they may be wrong. [00:17:33] Speaker C: I'm trying. [00:17:34] Speaker A: I had an example of me doing this. I don't. Can't remember it right now. And if I did, I don't know if I'd want to share it. But me, I don't think I'm perfect by any means. I don't ever try to claim that I'm. [00:17:48] Speaker C: That's good. [00:17:48] Speaker A: I do sin less than I did a long time ago, but I certainly [00:17:52] Speaker C: still have a long way to go. [00:17:53] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:54] Speaker C: And I have nothing to brag about. Right. [00:17:56] Speaker B: So this was. [00:17:57] Speaker A: It was probably on a golf course. I probably said a word that you're not supposed to say or something. And I'm thinking, you know, well, somebody might. I put a cross on. [00:18:05] Speaker C: Christians did that. [00:18:06] Speaker A: That's right. I put a cross on my golf ball is my mark. Okay. So then when I lose sight of that cross and the word slips out there. [00:18:13] Speaker C: Shouldn't have. And golf can do it. [00:18:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Somebody's gonna sit there and say, oh, he. Look at this. Me being a Christian, I never claimed that I didn't sin. Okay. That wasn't the point of me putting the cross on the golf ball. It was actually to try to prevent it. [00:18:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:27] Speaker A: You know, so it's. I think sometimes I think we might get an unfair bad rat rap in some ways. And then I think, so it goes. [00:18:35] Speaker C: And I think sometimes we've earned it. [00:18:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:38] Speaker C: And I think the thing of it is, is, you know, holding someone to a standard of perfection. Yeah. I'm going to find a hypocrite every time I turn around. But, but now look, if we, if we act unlovingly, if we act on Christ like, then, yeah. I think that's when we can definitely be accused of, of basically being a hypocrite. [00:19:00] Speaker B: And I think we also. I've seen this recently. We also, even Christians say their brothers are hypocrites because we gossip about our brothers. [00:19:13] Speaker A: True. [00:19:14] Speaker B: And I had one that was very angry with someone. They both profess Christianity instead of badgering that person, what are you doing? Didn't God tell you, you forgive that person? And sometimes we, sometimes we criticize people when we should be the ones that are. We're criticizing for what they're doing, but Christ told us what we should be doing. We should not be holding that against them. And I think a lot of times we forget when you see what someone else is doing in the church. But what are we doing about it? We're talking about it. That's not what we're supposed to be doing. [00:19:59] Speaker A: Right. [00:20:00] Speaker B: We're supposed to be forgiving and loving them regardless of what they do regard, you know, but that's easier said than done. [00:20:10] Speaker A: Well, I think it all. It goes back to what we've said before. Remembering your own sins, past and present. [00:20:16] Speaker B: I mean, if we did that, then. Yeah. [00:20:18] Speaker A: And also remembering to not rank those sins. Right. [00:20:22] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:20:22] Speaker A: When I see somebody doing something, whether it's in church or out in the world, that I Don't agree with or I. I know is unbiblical or whatever. It's easy to not meaning to start to judge a little bit or start to you know feel a certain way about it and then just always got a kind of constant remind myself. You know, you remember. Remember the golf course the other day. Remember the other day in traffic. Remember whatever. I mean it's. And that's. [00:20:51] Speaker B: We're all. [00:20:53] Speaker A: I sure am glad I'm not judged on my worst days from that's for sure. Because it's. There's some. We all have them and we're all broken. Our worst moment. [00:21:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:03] Speaker B: Where every one of us and we had no reason to criticize somebody else because we're broken ourselves. [00:21:08] Speaker A: I'm not judged on my best days, much less my words. [00:21:12] Speaker B: Yeah right. I mean we're all our sinners are once we're sinners. I mean we're all children in Christ of course but we're all broken. We all have that tendency to go back to where we. Where God brought us from and we need to get our eyes off our brother. We need to focus on ourselves. Well I need to. This is me. I need to focus on what I'm doing. Right wrong or right. Not worry about what they're doing because on Christ. Because you're not going to tell somebody they're wrong and they'll believe you. Yeah. Well I'm not getting into the corporate where you. The scriptures that you, you know, take your brother aside. [00:21:58] Speaker C: Right. [00:21:58] Speaker B: I'm not talking about that. [00:22:00] Speaker C: Well I'm just talking about getting your mind fixed on Christ. [00:22:03] Speaker B: Yeah. That's what I was making the cop and not. You're right and not to. Yeah. But I find. And I focus on Christ. It doesn't matter what people are doing to me. [00:22:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:14] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm not that I agree with it but it. It doesn't upsell me because I know I. I could be there. I have been there or or in that. And sometimes people do things that I think are wrong but they don't. And I'm okay with that, you know because it's just. It's my conviction that's how I was brought up. And it might not even be wrong. So they might not even be wrong, but I think are wrong. [00:22:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:44] Speaker B: And it's. And the question comes to mind that's not the criteria of being saved. Criteria of being saved is repent, believe and receive. And we get that confused. We. We associate bad hate, bad Christian behavior as are they really saved. And that's not true. And I have. I have. I'm the guilty person on that one. [00:23:12] Speaker A: Well, and I had one the other day, another golf store. But I was. I got paired up with somebody. I didn't know them, but we were, you know, had two twos when they put us together. [00:23:22] Speaker C: And. [00:23:23] Speaker A: Well, sometimes it's really. Sometimes it can be great. I mean, I've met. I've made some real good friends that way. And then at the same time, this one wasn't one of those. Me and the guy that I was playing with, we were. [00:23:34] Speaker B: He. [00:23:35] Speaker A: He made the comment to me about the sixth or seventh hole. Does this guy have a cuss word quota that he's trying to hit? I said, well, let me. [00:23:41] Speaker B: Oh, man. [00:23:42] Speaker A: So let me tell you, if he does, he's. He's gonna hit it, because I'm not lying. He probably said four or five after every shot, and he probably shot 125. So that's. I said, that's 500. But he wasn't just his. Every time I hit, he had something to say. And everybody. I bet the guy said, I'm not. I'm. I really don't think I'm exaggerating to say. I think he said 1500 that day. No joke. I mean, if you did the math, it was. [00:24:08] Speaker B: I would have got a neighbor like that that has a limited vocabulary. [00:24:13] Speaker A: Well. [00:24:13] Speaker B: And it drives me crazy. I don't confront her, but it's like, don't you know another word? [00:24:21] Speaker C: Well, it becomes part of you. It becomes part of your nature when. When. When it is, you know. Again and I. Again, for our fans listening up north, I apologize. This is a. But it is stereotypical. When we went to New York and we went on a mission trip to Staten island and we worked with churches that were up there, man, between the pastor and all the other folks over there, man, I was hearing cuss words, and I was with a bunch of youth up there. I was like, y' all need to drop the. The COVID And for them, I even asked Pastor, I said, what's the deal? He said, it ain't a cuss word for. We just. We just throw it in. [00:25:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:03] Speaker C: You know, it's more of an adjective. And I'm like, no. Where I'm. I said, yeah, get you slapped. Get your taste slapped out your mouth. [00:25:13] Speaker B: I don't say it's cussing because it's a hard issue. Right. When you start using the Lord's name in vain, that's where. [00:25:20] Speaker C: That's where you draw the line. [00:25:21] Speaker A: Well, see, and that's Where I think [00:25:22] Speaker B: that you can say the F bomb. What? Yeah, at church, if you want to. It's not going to affect me. [00:25:27] Speaker C: Oh, it'll affect me. [00:25:28] Speaker B: Well, yeah, it'll affect some folks, maybe. Look at you. [00:25:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:32] Speaker B: A little strange, but I'm. The thing about using those type of words, you pass it on to your children. And I see this lady, son, he's worse than she is. Yeah. So it's not that it's right or wrong, because it's not what kind of is. It's your mindset. [00:25:53] Speaker A: Well, and. [00:25:54] Speaker B: But I'll do it. I was taught not to. You know, I can select if I did that, you know. [00:25:58] Speaker A: Well, and here's the thing. Speaking of. Speaking of being a hypocrite, if you, If I self audited a little bit. Look, the words you're just. You were just talking about there what I'd call my PG 13 words. I say a lot more of them than a Christian should. Okay. And I'll. I'll acknowledge that I think it's culture, [00:26:16] Speaker C: but I think it's playing golf too. It'll do it, but let a word. [00:26:21] Speaker A: But I also, on the flip side of it, I'm not going to say I'm perfect and I never say God's name in vain, but it's one of my sticklers. I guess I'm pretty strict on that one. And you know, if I do, it's an accident. It's not anything I've ever. And, And I'm telling you, this guy said God's name way more than you have sermon. [00:26:43] Speaker C: Come on, dude. [00:26:43] Speaker B: That is. [00:26:44] Speaker A: He almost made a joke. I told my buddy one time, I said, he says, that's a good time. I said, he's. I'm getting to the point. I'm not trying to ruffle feathers or anything, but if he says that one more time, I'm gonna tell him Jesus ain't got nothing to do with his golf game. He needs to get that name out of your mouth. Because it was like, oh, man, you. I'm. [00:27:00] Speaker B: It. [00:27:00] Speaker A: It was, I mean, you know, offensive or whatever, but it's just one of those. [00:27:05] Speaker C: I can't. [00:27:05] Speaker A: I don't. [00:27:06] Speaker C: I hate to hear it. [00:27:06] Speaker A: And it just gets on my nerves. And when after hearing it for four [00:27:09] Speaker B: hours, I do, I. I do not like to hear people use Jesus. No. Or God. And my thinking is it's wrong. I know it's wrong. Why would you curse somebody that has died for you? [00:27:24] Speaker C: That's right. [00:27:25] Speaker B: And I don't get it, but I know they don't get it either. [00:27:28] Speaker A: I even wonder sometimes, like why. Why Jesus? Why. If you don't say Allah or any of these, if you don't believe in him, why are you saying his name so much? I mean, what's the. Just don't. I don't get it, but I don't [00:27:41] Speaker C: know, maybe that's what we need to start doing is the Allah and come up, you get shot. I was gonna say. I ain't gonna recommend that. [00:27:48] Speaker A: Yeah, but. [00:27:48] Speaker C: But yeah, I'm with you. If you're not a follower of his, why are you even invoking his name? Yeah, that's number one. Number two is I, man, there's just a part of me that says, look, I. I know when you play sports, when you play any kind of competitive something, you take it. You take it serious. But John Brown, this is a game. I don't know that I need to cuss. I learned that a long time ago because I used to get all upset. I used to. You know, I've got a mark on my leg where I threw a club that I shouldn't have when I dubbed a P chip. I stink at golf so bad. And I was 18, but I stink it golf so bad that I'm like, what I mean. And yeah, if I want to get well and get better and start playing more, I get it. But doggone, it's a game. I don't know if I need to cuss at it ever. Now, if I just blew a master's putt for $2 million. All right, I don't know that what I would say. I would probably just break down and cry. But. But I mean, I just don't know that it's worth. I mean, is anything. I mean, I know there's some things, but playing a game, where is the sin? We ain't talking about game. [00:28:54] Speaker B: I know, but when you start cussing, that's the. That's the physical effect. The sin that's already. [00:29:00] Speaker C: Is in there's the heart. [00:29:02] Speaker B: Right. That's where you're sinning. [00:29:03] Speaker C: Well, and that's where the mouth speaks anyway. [00:29:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, the other thing is just you've already done it. You've already thinking about murder. You've already murdered somebody. Instead of physical act. Well, that comes later. Yeah, well, some attitudes. [00:29:22] Speaker A: That's. When I was joking with Renee the other day in the Bible study, they said something about the fruits of the spirit and they listed them off and as a fruit of the spirit. Was the. The whole point of the study that there's only one but anyway, when he got to self control, I looked at Renee, I said, I always forget that last one. [00:29:38] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a tough one. That's a tough one. [00:29:40] Speaker A: But it. I tell you, the golf course is a real good way to practice it because I think that it's something I've been really. [00:29:46] Speaker C: You better believe it. [00:29:47] Speaker A: I've had a lot of. Of rounds recently where I played 14 or 15 holes very well, and the other four. [00:29:54] Speaker C: And it only takes two. Yeah, it only takes one to really derail you. [00:29:57] Speaker A: And I'd say you talk about having to. And I've again, not done it perfectly on a couple occasions, but I've had to really work hard on that self control thing of, hey, look, this is still a game and you're still out here playing, and that's a blessing. And it's. Again, don't you. And trying to tone that part of it down a little bit. And I was telling Gabe yesterday, he had a little incident at school and he was about as red as your shirt and he had a right to be. And he did some stuff he probably shouldn't have done in reaction to it. And I said, look, I get it, but you just gotta take a breath because you're gonna make it worse by the way you react. I said the other day, I said, matt, I could have snapped my driver over my car, but then I had to remember that that shaft was 300 bucks. [00:30:43] Speaker C: How much money you spent? [00:30:44] Speaker A: So it's just one of those things you got to kind of check yourself on a little bit. [00:30:50] Speaker B: And. [00:30:50] Speaker A: And also the self control in a situation like the other day with that guy, I don't know how we're supposed to handle that. I did. I never said anything to him about it. I know that there's, you know, there's people that would. And. But I'm sitting there thinking. I'm not sure how to address it. I'm not sure how to bring it up. I just tried to respond by being as kind no matter how at the end of the day. Now, on the inside, I was frustrated and fed up, but I was trying to be as nice to him at the end of the day as I was at the beginning and just try to be steady in that. And that took self control too, because [00:31:21] Speaker C: my recommendation would be a couple of things. Number one is this. Don't be alarmed. The world acts like the world. [00:31:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:27] Speaker C: All right. So that's number one. Don't ever be shocked that the world acts like the world. [00:31:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:31] Speaker C: All right. So don't impose. Well, he should be a, acting like a Christian. He, he's just as dark and lost as he can be. Yeah, he's just as dark and lost as my shot off the tee box. [00:31:42] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:31:43] Speaker C: So, so don't, don't, don't expect him to live a godly life when he doesn't even have God in his life. [00:31:49] Speaker A: Right. [00:31:50] Speaker C: All right, so then. All right, so now what, what is the, what's the answer to darkness is. All right, let's shine the light. Let's share the light. And I think that's where you begin to look for ways to do it. I think there's ways to kindly basically say without, you know, again, I'm doing this with gentleness and respect and it's okay to say, hey, hey, man, look, I just want you to know the name you just used, he's, he's the one that saved my life. And look, cuss any way you want. Just don't use that word. [00:32:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:24] Speaker C: Or hey, you know, how about, how about I give you a good one, dad, Jim. That's what I used to say, [00:32:31] Speaker B: you know. Yeah. [00:32:32] Speaker C: I don't know that I've ever met dad or Jim that would, you know. [00:32:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:37] Speaker C: You can say dad, Jim all you want. [00:32:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:39] Speaker C: And I think you can do it in a loving, kind way without trying to invoke a fight or anything else. And maybe after about the second or third hole you build a rapport up with them of some way. But it may just be that, you know what, man, and look, I've done this before, is we're going to peel away from you, or you go ahead, we're slowing you down, or my gosh, game so bad. I can do this. I can start slowing somebody down. Yeah, you know what, you go ahead. [00:33:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:07] Speaker C: You know. [00:33:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. I mean, I tried to just continue to be as level headed and treat, you know, not try not to get judgmental was the big. I had to put most of my energy into not getting judgmental. [00:33:22] Speaker C: That's where. Because oftentimes that's where we get mad. [00:33:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:25] Speaker C: Is we get, we start judging and everything else. And that's. I think that's why I want to remind you. [00:33:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:30] Speaker C: World's acting like the world. Don't, don't be shocked when someone is spiritually darkened. If we believe what this says. If you're not in Christ, then you are in spiritual darkness. Don't be surprised. They don't live like the world. [00:33:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:33:44] Speaker B: I mean the world, like I said, the world lives by their morality, which Is no morality. [00:33:52] Speaker C: Exactly. I mean, the God of this age has darkened their mind. I mean, you look at what Ephesians 2 says and you begin to realize, yeah, they're going to live totally opposite. Which then in part kind of puts the onus on us. Or the question that we have is, if that's the case, if we live in a dark world and don't be surprised when the world lives like the world, then we should stick out like strangers and aliens, is what the writer of Hebrews Peter calls us. Strangers and aliens that we have seen that there's a distant land and that we cherish it. And we. [00:34:28] Speaker B: We. [00:34:28] Speaker C: We long for it. We desire for. Desire it. [00:34:31] Speaker B: You know that too. I'm not afraid of what was happening in this world now, because we already shouldn't be. We already got the end. It don't bother me what people do, sinners do, because that's just them. I mean. Yeah, I get irritated, so I'm not surprised. I'm not shocked about anything. [00:34:53] Speaker C: Well, watch the news and it'll. It'll let you know. [00:34:57] Speaker B: I don't even shock. [00:34:58] Speaker C: No, you don't need to be shocked. But it just like how. How devastating, how dark it is. [00:35:04] Speaker B: And. And so. And we can be that way. I mean, we can get off track ourselves. But it's. It used to bother me. I used to bother my father all the time, man. That's what was going on. Yeah, and they are. [00:35:20] Speaker C: You're exactly right. [00:35:21] Speaker B: But it's. But that's not how he was putting it. [00:35:24] Speaker C: What happened to this country? [00:35:25] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Doesn't anybody have any morals? Yeah, you know. You know, and that's just. And that's been going on since day one. Has it got any worse? I don't know if it's gotten worse, if Bible tends to say things do get worse, but sin is sin, and it had. We just see it a lot more because there's volume. Yes. And we see it, but there's more people. [00:35:52] Speaker C: There's more people and there's more things. So I just think it's volume. [00:35:55] Speaker B: It ain't. [00:35:55] Speaker C: It ain't this. There's nothing new under the sun. This. This is the same kind of mayhem and debauchery that was going on in Sodom and Gomorrah and now all throughout history. Yeah, there's nothing. [00:36:07] Speaker A: Just didn't have social media. [00:36:08] Speaker C: They have social media and we got so much more of it because we got so many people. [00:36:13] Speaker B: Yeah, so many people want to be, you know, want to be seen. Facebook definitely Has. [00:36:18] Speaker C: Boy, I tell you what, it's amazing. It is absolutely amazing what people are doing. TikTok, everything else that. That I don't know. I'm just going to be honest with you, boys. I've just never thought that my opinion was that important, that I had to post something about what I enjoyed eating, what I ate, what I think, the products I use. Man, I'm telling you. I saw something the other day that somebody told me that they made. I want to say it was like 50 grand a year with these TikTok video. I said, man, it is a sorry world. [00:36:49] Speaker B: It's a sorry world. [00:36:51] Speaker C: That's just me. [00:36:52] Speaker B: What are they? Influencers? [00:36:54] Speaker C: I don't know what they do. I mean, it was just about. Yeah, you build up a following and then people. And I'm sitting there like, man, I'm sorry. That's just. [00:37:02] Speaker A: And you do. [00:37:03] Speaker B: But you're doing it all the time. It's not like. It's not a job. You have to do it to build. [00:37:09] Speaker A: Well, yeah. [00:37:09] Speaker B: Now, the job. [00:37:11] Speaker A: Now I think you can pretty much tell AI to make videos, and it makes them as fast as you want to, and then you put them out and you don't even really have to. [00:37:17] Speaker C: Okay, I didn't even know that part. [00:37:19] Speaker A: It makes it even worse. [00:37:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:21] Speaker A: I mean, you can get divorced. [00:37:22] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, sorry. [00:37:27] Speaker B: I mean, and here's what. Here's what I heard. I saw last night, because I was watching. I do watch the news, but I watch it for. Not to believe it. For lotto tickets, but to be informed on what's going on. [00:37:42] Speaker C: Right. [00:37:43] Speaker B: But not to believe what. What they're saying about it. Let's know that we're, you know, Iran. We're at war with Iran. And listen to the spin they're in for, for one thing, and that's filling their pockets with money. [00:37:58] Speaker C: That's it. That, well, they're trying to build an audience, and then they know who their audience is, and they know what the audience wants. [00:38:04] Speaker B: And you know how to get your audience riled up. [00:38:07] Speaker C: But even that. [00:38:07] Speaker B: I mean, you. [00:38:08] Speaker C: If you. If you follow anything on Twitter, with the Iran war, the. What's going on over there, you wouldn't know who's winning, because I see videos all the time. Oh, the Iranians have sunk this ship and they got video of it. And you're sitting there like, I don't look real and you don't hear anything on regular news. So I'm kind of like, all right, I'm not believing anything. And I'll just be honest with you. It breaks my heart because I'm kind of like, boys, what are we doing? You know, I hate to see any kind of war. At the same time, there is such thing as a just war. Is this one. I'm still on the fence on that. So it's just been. I'm ready for the thing to be over and let's get back to regular. [00:38:49] Speaker B: What was it last night, that post that Trump had to go take off now? It didn't offend me. Some people say he was trying to be like Jesus. [00:38:59] Speaker C: Well, he made himself. If you look at that picture. I'm sorry. Yeah, I think there's a little bit, the pose. [00:39:07] Speaker B: And so some people say it's like the Pope. The Pope. Some people said he was Jesus. He's a doctor. I mean, you hear three different things. [00:39:17] Speaker A: I think you said it a while ago that you don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with just turning it off a little bit and being under informed or whatever. But I've gotten to the point I really just. I don't watch it and I'm not even sorry I don't watch it anymore. [00:39:32] Speaker B: You look at that post, there's the picture. [00:39:36] Speaker A: Oh, gosh. Okay. [00:39:38] Speaker C: Yeah. So tell me that don't look something like, [00:39:43] Speaker B: they don't offend me. Renee was all outrage about it. [00:39:46] Speaker A: Well, he. [00:39:47] Speaker C: He made it sound like he was supposed to be a doctor. I don't know what doctor. [00:39:52] Speaker B: Oh, man, he does do some things, and I. I question a lot. [00:39:57] Speaker C: Well, and. And I hate to say it, and I know, hey, if I got any Catholic friends out there, I'm sorry, but this little brouhaha he's got going with the Pope, I'm kind of. I hate to say I'm highly entertained. [00:40:08] Speaker B: Well, that's what I was told. That's why I thought he was dressed up. [00:40:11] Speaker C: Because you thought he was trying to imitate the Pope? Because he's already said, because I don't want a pope that's going to be talking about this and this. [00:40:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:18] Speaker C: And that's what I. [00:40:19] Speaker B: That's how I took it, that he was dressed as a Pope. And I thought, it's Jesus. [00:40:24] Speaker A: What's his real. [00:40:25] Speaker B: He thinks he's a doctor. [00:40:27] Speaker C: Well, the Pope has said what's going on in Iran is. It's unacceptable. We are, you know, using violence and it's basically human suffering. And Trump came on, and I wish he just said, well, I ain't Catholic, I don't care. But I think he is. So. But he Just basically says, I don't want any Pope that's going to be telling me I'm wrong with America's wrong. [00:40:52] Speaker B: That's not what I elected to do. [00:40:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:54] Speaker C: And so I was sitting there thinking, wow, that ought to be interesting between the Pope and. And, you know. But then again, the Pope hadn't ever done anything for me, so I'm just going to move on. [00:41:05] Speaker B: The thing I do like about Trump, he'll do what he says he's going to do and not think about it. [00:41:10] Speaker C: I don't think he cares. [00:41:11] Speaker B: He don't care about being reelected, that's for sure. [00:41:14] Speaker C: So. And he's even. I think. I thought he. I'm like you. I thought he would post himself as a picture of him being the Pope. [00:41:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:21] Speaker C: And I think he did do something like that. [00:41:23] Speaker B: That's how I took it, because that's what was going on. 1. But. But when I looked at it, man, it's really without. [00:41:30] Speaker A: Without getting into political opinions, I'm just gonna say, like, yeah, I'm just gonna. Some of the stuff Trump does, I just. I can't take it. I can't. I have to just turn it off. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not. I agree. [00:41:45] Speaker B: Just, I. I can listen to him a lot of that liberal stuff. That's just not me. Yeah. Both of them are just too far to the right and left to do any good. [00:41:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:41:56] Speaker A: I was talking to somebody the other day that he's posted a bunch of stuff about, you know, anti Trump stuff on Facebook, and I talked to him the other day, and I said, well, you really don't like Trump, do you? And he said, no. He said, I take it you do by that question. I said, I didn't say anything about, like, I just acknowledged, you really don't. [00:42:12] Speaker C: That's part of the problem in this country. [00:42:14] Speaker B: It's. [00:42:14] Speaker A: So it's. [00:42:15] Speaker C: One of you either got to be on his side or you are against him. And I'm like, no, I'm in the middle. I think if I'm in the middle, I can call a spade a spade and say, that was dumb. That was smart. Yeah, that was good. This was terrible. And why do I have to either be in his camp or not? And that's where the media does that so that I can have my audience. [00:42:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:36] Speaker B: Yeah. They've sell in fear. [00:42:37] Speaker A: And I think my response to it is, okay, I've been trying to be in the middle, and y' all won't let me be in the middle. So I'm just going to be dumb. And when you say, what did you think about what Trump did? I can honestly say I have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't see. I don't. [00:42:50] Speaker B: Don't. [00:42:51] Speaker A: Because what do you do now? And then, if you want to. [00:42:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:54] Speaker A: If you want to hate me for not following, fine. But I'm not getting in the middle. [00:42:57] Speaker C: What I do now. [00:42:58] Speaker A: I don't know what to do now. All right, well, how many long we got here? [00:43:03] Speaker C: So 241. [00:43:04] Speaker B: I don't know. What are we talking? [00:43:05] Speaker A: We hadn't recorded but, like 40. [00:43:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:08] Speaker A: We didn't record but 43 minutes of 40 minutes. Yeah. [00:43:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:12] Speaker C: And longer. Just as long as any Baptist business. [00:43:15] Speaker B: Gary closed us out, so. Yeah, I was with his prayer. [00:43:18] Speaker A: I was glad to hear that. You're going to be three weeks on John 14. [00:43:21] Speaker C: Yes. [00:43:22] Speaker B: That was. [00:43:23] Speaker A: I was kind of bummed when I looked at it and realized that's what you were preaching Sundays. I was like, man, I got children's church and I'd rather be in there for it. [00:43:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:29] Speaker A: But I did listen to it, but I was multitasking when I listened, so I didn't have my notes out, but I was glad it was going because that's probably. John 14 and 15 might be my favorite chapters of the Bible. [00:43:40] Speaker C: Well, they are. The upper room discourse is a powerful, powerful. I mean, if you stop thinking about it. If, if, if, you know, this is the last thing I'm going to teach my son. If I know I'm going home to be with the Lord, and this is the last thing I'm going to teach my son. That'd probably be a pretty good life lesson. Well, these are the last words he's going to share with his disciples before he goes to the cross. And so I don't know. That probably is some heavy stuff. And he knew their hearts were heavy. And for him to start off the whole thing 14:1 with, do not let your hearts be troubled. Man, that's pretty heavy considering everything that we just heard. The bomb that we just received. Believe and don't let your hearts be troubled. That sounds like a command. That sounds like something I am. I have control over. [00:44:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:28] Speaker C: And. And I think that's the. What I really want them to see. And as we go through John chapter 14, you're gonna see that. [00:44:36] Speaker B: And I like that verse because we can be our hearts. Can I think what Jesus saying is untroubled hearts in a troubled life. That's, you know, we have. We have troubles in Life, you're gonna have trouble. So I think that's, you know. Yeah, we don't have to worry about what's happening in our heart because that's really where fear comes from. [00:45:00] Speaker C: You know, you don't have to walk in anxiety. [00:45:04] Speaker B: And in a troubled life, when nothing's [00:45:06] Speaker C: going right, you don't have to walk in anxiety, period. [00:45:08] Speaker B: But we get. But. But I had to point to myself, I get sidetracked. And when I'm having trouble in my life, sometimes I do worry. Right, right. [00:45:17] Speaker C: But you don't have to. That's. That's what Jesus is telling you in John 14:1. [00:45:21] Speaker B: I know what he's saying, but it's hard to put it into application a lot of times. Sure. I mean, I haven't mastered that. I don't know if I will ever master that. I know what I'm supposed to do, but I'm like Paul in this sense. I'm not doing it. [00:45:40] Speaker A: You know, when. When I listened to the sermon the other day or from Sunday, the invitation was, what a friend we have in Jesus. And I was like, man, that sounded really good. I went back and listened to the invitation two or three times. They did a real good job singing it. And then afterwards, I ended up getting on Spotify and found like an Alan Jackson version of it or something and added To My Place. [00:46:00] Speaker C: That's a great. I never. [00:46:01] Speaker A: I've sang it I don't know how many times, but I never really paid attention to the words. And when I started listening to words to it, I was like, it's a. [00:46:10] Speaker C: What a. Oh, what peace. We often forfeit that. [00:46:14] Speaker A: Yeah, it's because I never thought of it that way. But it's. It's like, yeah, why are we wasting. We're choosing to take on these problems that we don't have to. And it's like you said, when you're concentrating on Jesus. Yeah. You don't have problems. So then we choose to concentrate on our problems instead of Jesus. And it's a. It's an active decision that we make to be miserable. [00:46:38] Speaker C: You know, it's true. [00:46:40] Speaker B: It's. [00:46:41] Speaker A: I've tried to learn more and more and more just to say it's not my problem. You know, it may be in my life and it may be happening to me, but it's not my problem. [00:46:49] Speaker B: It's the problem that was, well, well put. That's. That's the problem. [00:46:59] Speaker C: And I think the thing of it is, and I think that's what really, this past week really got to me was the opposite of, of troubled heart is not peace. And the opposite of a troubled heart is not. Opposite of a troubled heart is trust. You can either trust or you can have a troubled heart. And now when you trust, there is peace and there is calm. But it starts with who are you going to have faith in? And Jesus says, you believe in God, Believe also in me. And I believe is. Believe that he is who he is and he can do what he says he can do. [00:47:33] Speaker B: I like have that calm assurance that you can trust in God. [00:47:42] Speaker C: But, but the trust comes first though, I think. [00:47:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Is it like 1, 2 or is it just. [00:47:49] Speaker C: No, I'm just saying trust comes first. I mean. [00:47:51] Speaker B: Yeah, according to John that you can trust in God. Yeah. I don't care what happens. You can always trust. [00:47:57] Speaker C: But you still got this will pass. You got to step up and trust. [00:48:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And you got to remember this is going to pass according what he says, that trouble will pass. [00:48:06] Speaker C: And these momentary light of light afflictions. [00:48:11] Speaker B: But we don't to the glory. Things have worked out. But it's that next one that I have a problem. [00:48:17] Speaker C: Well, and it's again, what do we always have our mindset on? Is on the Horror Channel. [00:48:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:23] Speaker C: We're going to borrow. We're going to borrow the chat, we're going to borrow the trouble and we're going to worry and it's going to be worse than anything that could ever happen. [00:48:30] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. [00:48:31] Speaker C: Well, 90% of the things we worry about never happen. [00:48:34] Speaker B: No. Right. That's true. But we. [00:48:37] Speaker C: So therefore worry works. [00:48:43] Speaker A: That's a good way. It's funny, one of the. I had already jotted this down as something to maybe talk about sometime and then you kind of said it Sunday in part of your sermon. But there's a, A not a like, you know, big divine sign type thing. But just if I felt like there's a theme that I've been getting from God the last few months, it's been this question of, okay, you, you've read the Bible. That's great. Good for you. Took you 40 years, but you finally read it and you've even. [00:49:14] Speaker B: You must have read it. [00:49:16] Speaker A: I read slow. I read it slow. [00:49:20] Speaker C: Well, he just took a little 20 year. [00:49:22] Speaker A: Yeah, there you go. [00:49:23] Speaker B: 20 years. Whoa. You today. [00:49:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I was on the 20 year plan. [00:49:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:30] Speaker A: But, but there's. Okay, you've read it and you've taught it in children's church and Sunday school and stuff like that. [00:49:36] Speaker C: And you know it. [00:49:37] Speaker A: Now do you believe it? [00:49:39] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. [00:49:40] Speaker A: It's like And I don't, I don't mean that in a, you know, questioning my own salvation type of way, but there is a big difference between knowing it and believing it. And that when you talk about that, stepping out on that bridge or whatever and really knowing that it's going to hold you, you. And it's because it's a lot to, to. To. It's a lot to take in. If you really think about the, the magnitude and the significance of what he's capable of. And, and it's. Why are you questioning things? You know, he can handle it. You know, do you think he doesn't know? Do you think he doesn't. Do you think he's not all knowing? Do you think he's not all loving or do you think he's not all powerful? [00:50:16] Speaker C: That's right. [00:50:16] Speaker A: Which of these things are you questioning? That's it. [00:50:18] Speaker B: No question at all. [00:50:20] Speaker A: Think I don't know what we're quite. But you shouldn't. I mean, I think that's when I, when I just remind myself of that. [00:50:28] Speaker C: You're right. I think that's the key. That faith equals what you believe plus action, not just what you believe. [00:50:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:37] Speaker C: Because most people think, oh, okay, and we kind of do it that way. Oh, he's a man of the faith or he has, you know, we consider faith to be a set of doctrines that we believe. Okay, I sort of get that. That the Christian faith is made up of those doctrines. Yes. But really it's what you believe plus what you do because you're doing is, you know, that's why I love Hebrews 11 that we were just talking about. It has illustration after illustration that Abraham was willing to leave Ur. Abraham trusted that what God said was going to happen and that he's going to make him a great nation. Sarah believed and conceived. I mean, that was action. But then it gets to the internal and where the internal is what causes the external. In other words, it's what's in our heart that causes us to do these things. And so I think that's what all I'm getting at is. Yeah. Faith plus belief equal, or faith plus action equals what you truly believe. [00:51:36] Speaker B: Isn't it strange that we can believe that God created heavens and earth? [00:51:42] Speaker C: He's all powerful. [00:51:46] Speaker B: He loves us parting the Red Sea. Right. He loves us. We can believe all that. [00:51:53] Speaker C: But he can't meet my needs then. [00:51:56] Speaker B: Well, when it comes to meeting my needs, it becomes personal. And now are you going to. I don't know. [00:52:04] Speaker C: I doubt you're going to take care of me in that. [00:52:06] Speaker B: Yeah. But. But it seems illogical that you believe he rose from the dead. That should be hard to believe. [00:52:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:15] Speaker B: That God created the heavens and earth. That's. Wow. Yeah. But financial. [00:52:23] Speaker C: Three million Israelites in the desert, but [00:52:25] Speaker B: he can't pray from heaven, take care of my financial. Help me make my house payment. [00:52:31] Speaker C: Yeah. Or help me do. Yeah, you're right. [00:52:35] Speaker B: Or rely on transportation. These are. [00:52:39] Speaker C: Or I can't trust that he's going to take care of or bring the right person in my life. [00:52:44] Speaker B: Now it's personal. So we can believe that all this stuff that we read now. I do. But when it comes down to my everyday life, that's where. That's where the. [00:52:54] Speaker C: Can you put it into action? [00:52:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:56] Speaker C: Belief plus action equals. [00:52:58] Speaker B: But isn't that strange? Isn't that strange? [00:53:00] Speaker A: Well, yeah, it's kind of what I was when I was thinking about this the other day. It's like the. I. I believe the Bible and I believe all the words in the Bible and all that kind of stuff. And it's easy to maybe not realize that you're just kind of believing it as like really good ancient wisdom. That was. Yes, it's true. Yes, it's true. [00:53:21] Speaker B: It's. [00:53:21] Speaker A: It's not. Not. It's not real to you. It becomes real to you when it's your life, your situation. And it could be. That's right. [00:53:30] Speaker C: Yeah. That's what I was getting at with. Faith is so much more than just believing the earth is round or is flat, depending on which camp you're in. And just knowing facts is not going to get me through that. I just got a call that my mom's got cancer. Just knowing facts is not going to get me through that. I've been diagnosed with something I didn't want to be diagnosed with. Just knowing facts is not going to get me through the phone call that comes in the middle of night telling me there's been a car accident. That's not going. You got to know the one who the facts are about. That's the whole point of, again, knowing what the truth is, but then knowing the truth, and that's hard. [00:54:11] Speaker B: That has taken me. I hadn't perfected. It has taken me a lifetime. [00:54:16] Speaker C: But that's the difference between what I said at the end is it's a difference between a recipe that's not a recipe for us to a hurting heart or a troubled heart. It's not a recipe. It's a relationship. That's the key. [00:54:31] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that's the maybe even part that can be a little overwhelming sometimes is that relationship. And when it's the conviction maybe of a lack of faith in that, it's not just knowing that you're. That God can do anything. It's actually the conviction of doubting it and realizing that he's. [00:54:53] Speaker B: He's. [00:54:54] Speaker A: He's right here. He's not distant. He's. He's right here and he's challenging you and saying, why are you doubting this? Why are you doubting me? You know, and that's it. Because it just, like I said, when it becomes real and it's not just dry facts, it's like, wow, you really can do anything. And I know you really can do anything, but now I have to trust you to do anything. And it just doesn't feel natural. We want to take control. Right. Or we want to worry about it. [00:55:15] Speaker C: You know, you've often asked what. What did Jesus criticize the most or, or condemn the most? In the New Testament, we always say hypocrisy. [00:55:22] Speaker B: Hypocrisy. [00:55:23] Speaker C: But it's also unbelief. [00:55:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:25] Speaker C: If you look at. He's always getting on the disciples of why did you not. [00:55:29] Speaker B: Why did you doubt? Yeah. [00:55:31] Speaker C: I mean that. It's either doubt or it's hypocrisy, unbelief or hypocrisy. I do have one question if I can pose. [00:55:38] Speaker B: Yeah, go ahead real quick. Now we're going to move. [00:55:42] Speaker C: I received an email yesterday and the email went something to the extent of this. Ben enjoyed the sermon. Sermon. John 14:6 is a very interesting verse. John 14:6 basically says, I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me. In other words, and I made the point of Jesus is either the only way or he's not a way. And that's the absoluteness, the universal statement there about who Christ is. Well, his question was, and I think it's a legitimate question. I never thought of it this way. Being that is so, so important. I mean, let's face facts. That is a key. That statement alone separates Christ from everything. Why is that not in Matthew, Mark or Luke? Why is John the only one that has. I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. I mean, that seems like that would be an important thing to have in all of them. [00:56:41] Speaker B: And it's not in any other gospel people written that way. I mean, that's, that's not enough. Yeah. Is there? I don't, I don't Depends on how [00:56:49] Speaker C: you want to define it. I'm going to tell you what my answer was once I let y' all wrestle with it. But, no, there's no. There's no other Matthew Marker. Luke does not make that kind of statement that I know of. [00:57:00] Speaker B: Well, now, implied. [00:57:02] Speaker C: I would. I would argue. [00:57:03] Speaker B: Okay, implied. I just wanted. I did not know that it wasn't mentioned. No, not that I never thought about it being mentioned. The other three gospels are about. Are copies of one or another, at least two of them. Maybe John purchasing. Knowing Jesus in a more personal, not historical way. [00:57:30] Speaker C: Okay. [00:57:31] Speaker B: And there is a lot of things that John says. That's diamond. All three gospels. [00:57:39] Speaker C: And there's a lot of things that [00:57:40] Speaker B: are in a lot of good teaching. Not just one. That's just not one of the verses, but John 3, 16. Yeah, that's in. [00:57:47] Speaker C: That's an important. [00:57:48] Speaker B: It's in John. It's in John, and it's also in first John. [00:57:51] Speaker C: Yeah, but it ain't in Matthew. [00:57:53] Speaker B: Right. That's how I would think that it was written because there wasn't a gospel. No one. Jesus as the person. [00:58:05] Speaker C: Right. [00:58:06] Speaker B: As the teacher. These are Matthew, Mark and Luke were showing that Christ came and he died on a cross. That John's not necessarily taking that route. Yeah, but I give you some good credit for that. [00:58:21] Speaker C: I give you at least. [00:58:22] Speaker B: Did I pass? [00:58:23] Speaker C: Oh, you passed. You passed. If you did use some terms, you would have got. [00:58:29] Speaker B: Dennis, listen. So it's just give me the first letter and I could have probably made it up. [00:58:35] Speaker C: I give you a good B on that good, solid B. There's a few things you could have. I'll tell you what I said. [00:58:44] Speaker A: The only thing I was going to say was from John 20, where he says, I wrote these things are written so that you may believe Jesus is the Christ, is the son of God. [00:58:52] Speaker C: Good choice. That. That was his. His. [00:58:55] Speaker A: Where the others may have been documenting what had happened in his life. John's sole purpose was that the reader may see that he is the Son of God and the Christ. [00:59:09] Speaker C: Here's the way it's argued or here's the way it's usually stated. The first three, Matthew, Mark and Luke are called the Synoptic Gospels, meaning seeing the same. And their goal is. I mean, well, Matthew's goal is to prove to the Jew that Jesus is the Messiah. All right, then Luke's goal was he wrote to a Greek named Theophilus that, hey, many people have set out to do this. I want you to know the truth. And so he Basically is providing the history of Christ. Well, Mark doesn't necessarily give us a purpose statement, but Mark is the same way. And so they're telling us the history of Jesus. He did this, he did this, he did anything. This John was written much later. And John has a whole different purpose. Just like you said 2031, John is more theological. So John is a theological work versus Matthew, Mark and Luke is. Here are the facts, ma'. Am, this is Dragnet. This is Theology 101. Big difference. And you don't hear things like being born again in Matthew, Mark or Luke. You don't hear things like so that you may believe or believing. John sets out to. Basically, he wants to show you Jesus is the way to the Messiah is the Messiah and he is the way to God. He does it by the seven I am statements, the seven miracles. I mean, there's nothing in order. So you might find something here in the back of John, really, that was early on because all he's doing is just providing a theological work. Now, my argument is yes and no, that it doesn't appear in other places that Jesus is the only way. What's the purpose of Matthew? Matthew sets out to show you that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. He does this by saying he did this to fulfill what is written or it is written. I mean, sometimes I read Matthew and I'm kind of like, is that really what Zechariah had in mind there when he said, I mean, he will stretch some things? And I'm like, well, Matthew's a Jew, he knows the Jewish, so I'm going to give it to him. And so in a way, when Matthew sums up the whole gets to the end of the book, he has basically said there is but one way to the Father. He is the Jewish Messiah. He fulfills it. Now, he doesn't just state that, but it's implied. That's what I meant. Now, the second Gospel of Luke does say there is salvation, but by one name by which man can be saved. That's Acts 4:12. Well, Luke is part one, Acts is part two. And trooping on, when you put them together, they almost read like a. [01:01:47] Speaker A: They really do. [01:01:48] Speaker C: It's like I'm going to say Luke does say it, but it's part two of the Gospel, not in part one. And so I think it's, it's. I think those are the things that I argued and gave him as why. And I said, then there's some things that I would have thought John should have had in there that, you know, John has at Times long discourses of teaching. Man sure looks like he would have had a parable in there. He don't have any. So. [01:02:13] Speaker B: But he covered himself by saying, there's many more things I could write. [01:02:18] Speaker C: Sure. At the very end, he said no books could contain them. [01:02:23] Speaker B: He has a disclaimer, yeah, there's a lot of things I could have wrote. [01:02:27] Speaker C: Well, and honestly, they contain them. Yeah, that's right. [01:02:29] Speaker A: One thing that can be easy to overlook, and I don't think I'd ever even really thought about it, is the time gap between the first Gospels and when John was written. This is many, many years later. I'm sure he is by this point in time. Probably read Matthew, Mark and Luke. Is it around at the time that he. [01:02:46] Speaker C: Yeah, he said it. [01:02:47] Speaker B: He's probably. Don't want to repeat it. [01:02:48] Speaker A: Yeah. So he's probably. [01:02:50] Speaker C: What's that? And I think theology had grown a little bit, and you hate saying it that way, but it had. I mean, think about from where Matthew, Mark and Luke are written to where Paul is now explaining the doctrine of justification and salvation and substitutionary atonement. I don't know that Matthew, Mark, and maybe they got it. John got it. Because John 1:29 says, Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. [01:03:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:15] Speaker C: No, this is exactly why he came. [01:03:16] Speaker B: Yeah. What's the time period of John's writing? Was Revelation the first? No, no, that's the last one, I [01:03:25] Speaker C: think I would say. [01:03:26] Speaker B: Oh, first, second, third, if I'm not [01:03:27] Speaker C: mistaken, and you can quote me on. And I may be wrong, I may put. Put my foot in my mouth. It's either 60 or 80 AD now, [01:03:35] Speaker B: which one was written? Which one? [01:03:36] Speaker C: Oh, John was written for Revelation. [01:03:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, I know that. Yeah. I mean, well, the 1, 2, 3. John, John and John. [01:03:42] Speaker C: That would have been. I think they're almost in the order as you see them. [01:03:45] Speaker A: Thank God. I can tell you. At least. I can tell you according to John MacArthur. At least. Let's see, John was 80 to 90. Revelation was last. [01:03:57] Speaker B: But what's first John? [01:03:59] Speaker A: 90 to 95. Yeah. [01:04:00] Speaker B: Second. [01:04:01] Speaker A: 90 to 95. [01:04:03] Speaker C: They're all right there together. [01:04:04] Speaker A: Yeah, John was. He's got John at 89. [01:04:07] Speaker B: Second. That's. I didn't know if he wrote maybe first John before John. [01:04:12] Speaker C: No, no, no. In fact, if you look a lot of times. First John sure does quote John. [01:04:19] Speaker B: Yeah, well. [01:04:19] Speaker C: Or very similar. [01:04:20] Speaker B: Or maybe John quotes first John. What's the difference of the years 80 to 90? Not going to believe that one. [01:04:30] Speaker C: No. John, John was written first. I mean, that's, that's. [01:04:33] Speaker B: Is that documented or is that pretty much. [01:04:36] Speaker C: Ask any church historian. They'll tell you. I don't think there's any scholar out there that would argue what you're saying. [01:04:42] Speaker B: No, I'm not. I don't know because I hadn't, I had, I had. Wasn't anything online. I just didn't know. [01:04:49] Speaker C: I think that is a universally accepted statement. John was written first. The book, the Gospel of. [01:04:54] Speaker B: But it's not. It can't be proven one way or the other. [01:04:57] Speaker C: It probably can't be. [01:04:59] Speaker B: Oh, would they take a samples? [01:05:01] Speaker C: Well, they would have. Depends on where they found the copies of the scrolls of the book of John and being able to date it from that. So that's where they would be able to say John was definitely written first, before first, second and third. [01:05:15] Speaker B: So they never found the original. [01:05:17] Speaker C: No, but that's why they're saying when you find a copy, you can be able to tell about when it was dated, depending on what it was with and when it was written. [01:05:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know. [01:05:28] Speaker C: I mean, you look it up, do all the. That's called textual criticism. And you'll find John was written before 1/2 30. [01:05:36] Speaker B: I'm not, I'm not really questioning that. I just want. [01:05:38] Speaker A: Sounds like it. No, that sounds specifically like what you. [01:05:43] Speaker C: Sounds like. Sounds like you are question. [01:05:47] Speaker A: You're asking the same question over and over and over in many, many different ways. It sure sounds like. [01:05:53] Speaker B: Like that's the definition. [01:05:55] Speaker C: Yeah, [01:05:58] Speaker A: he's not questioning. He was just wondering. [01:06:00] Speaker B: I just never thought. I'd never thought of it before. [01:06:02] Speaker C: Well, and I think, I think some of the things you can do. And this is, you know, it's not necessarily an argument that proves it, but look at how John addresses himself in first, second, third John, he addresses himself as the elder. That's somebody who's kind of been around. And the, you know, the head guy. Where in John, the Gospel of. He addresses himself as the one that Jesus loves. Loves the disciple Jesus loved and some other. [01:06:26] Speaker A: I always think that's a little funny. [01:06:30] Speaker C: Sorry. Last [01:06:34] Speaker B: I knew that was the last book. [01:06:36] Speaker A: Right. [01:06:37] Speaker B: But were the gospels written? And I can't recall. I think 30 A.D. mark was written first. [01:06:43] Speaker A: No, not 30. [01:06:44] Speaker B: 30 to 60 really was written first. [01:06:47] Speaker C: 30 years after Jesus. [01:06:48] Speaker A: 30 years after. [01:06:48] Speaker C: Yeah, 30 years after Christ. [01:06:51] Speaker B: Marcus first. But it was Paul's. [01:06:53] Speaker C: You're looking 50 to 60. [01:06:55] Speaker A: Yeah, 50 to 60. [01:06:56] Speaker B: Was Paul's epistles written after the three gospels? [01:07:00] Speaker A: I think so. They're in the 60s. [01:07:02] Speaker C: You're pretty. I'm pretty certain they are. [01:07:04] Speaker B: I don't know. It's just something I had. [01:07:07] Speaker C: I think it would be safe to say usually about 50 AD is mark, [01:07:13] Speaker B: give or take Matthew, then Luke. [01:07:16] Speaker C: And some people would argue Matthew was written first. [01:07:18] Speaker B: First, yeah, I've heard that. [01:07:21] Speaker A: Matthew and Mark, you got them both 50 to 60. [01:07:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:07:24] Speaker A: And then Thessalonian, Galatians was the first. [01:07:27] Speaker C: Right. That would be your first epistle. Which one? [01:07:29] Speaker B: He gives. [01:07:30] Speaker A: That was 49 to 50. And then early on, who was Matthew written 50 to 60. [01:07:37] Speaker B: And what's the first epistle? [01:07:39] Speaker A: Well, James is the first book of the Old Testament. 44 to 49 or New Testament. [01:07:44] Speaker C: Sorry, New Testament. [01:07:44] Speaker B: This one. [01:07:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:45] Speaker B: James was the first. I didn't know that. [01:07:46] Speaker C: He's saying. What time was that? [01:07:48] Speaker A: That was 44 to 49. [01:07:49] Speaker B: Wow. I didn't know that one. I thought, I mean, it could have been, but I thought Mark was the first one to appear and questionable with maybe Matthew. [01:08:00] Speaker C: And he's got James, the half brother of Jesus, writing that. And James, the half brother of Jesus was crucified. Not crucified, but persecuted and died by Herod. That would have been that early. [01:08:10] Speaker B: Was that the James or was it the disciples Disciple? [01:08:14] Speaker C: Most people put it as Jesus's half brother in Acts. [01:08:18] Speaker B: Okay. I thought it was John's brother. I have to look at that. I thought that he, if he did that, then that was very early. [01:08:30] Speaker C: Well, he got in his 40. [01:08:32] Speaker B: I thought James was the writer, right. Jesus's brother. But I thought James was the disciples, the one that Herod killed first after Steve, you might be right. [01:08:44] Speaker C: I, I don't, I think that, that's not something I. Look, that's the brother of Jesus in [01:08:49] Speaker B: on both of them. [01:08:49] Speaker A: Yeah, right. [01:08:50] Speaker B: In that. How about that? [01:08:52] Speaker C: Well, I will look it up. I'm almost certain it is. [01:08:55] Speaker B: Well, you could be right. I just always thought it was the disciple James. [01:09:00] Speaker A: Like how he gives you credit. You could be right, Pastor. [01:09:03] Speaker C: What was that? [01:09:04] Speaker A: He said you could be right. [01:09:06] Speaker C: I don't know. [01:09:08] Speaker B: It's not going to get him to heave [01:09:11] Speaker C: no points or nothing. [01:09:13] Speaker B: That's just. [01:09:14] Speaker A: Yeah, you get your Kenny points. If you're right, that's worth something. [01:09:18] Speaker B: Then, then James and I don't know where he ended up because I, I thought Jesus brother was old Campbell knees. Right. He was killed on his knees. But. And that's why I got the other James. [01:09:35] Speaker C: So I, I, It's James. James persecuted and killed in Acts. The James persecuted in Acts. 12. 2 was John, James, the son of Zebedee, known as James the Greater. Greater. So that is the brother of John, not. Not Jesus, Half brother. [01:09:51] Speaker B: Right. [01:09:51] Speaker A: Okay. [01:09:53] Speaker B: And then James, because he lived longer, Jesus, brother, wrote James. [01:09:58] Speaker C: Right. [01:10:00] Speaker B: And let me ask you this. Could some of his cousins be the disciples? That's possible. One of them is one of Jesus's cousins. [01:10:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm sure it's possible. [01:10:12] Speaker B: Maybe a brother Simon. I don't know. But I think James, the James and Lesser, might be Jesus's cousin somewhere. [01:10:23] Speaker A: So you're saying you think Simon could possibly be related to Jesus? [01:10:28] Speaker B: Yeah, [01:10:31] Speaker C: I don't think you'd be able [01:10:32] Speaker B: to prove it, but I would probably have to prove it through the mother [01:10:37] Speaker C: Marys and the women. [01:10:38] Speaker B: There's five. How many Marys are in there? Five. A lot of Marys. [01:10:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:42] Speaker B: And one of them was James, Little James's mother. I don't know which one that was. Yeah, that was at jurisdiction. [01:10:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:53] Speaker B: With his mother Mary. Yeah. [01:10:56] Speaker A: There's a lot of Marys. That can be confusing. [01:10:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:11:00] Speaker C: I do want to. I, I'm. I gotta look up something that. That just messes me. [01:11:05] Speaker B: What's that? Who? [01:11:08] Speaker C: No, nothing about all the names. Everybody's name the same. [01:11:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:12] Speaker C: Okay. So. [01:11:14] Speaker B: Wow. [01:11:15] Speaker C: Okay. I. I want to look into that because I'm. I'm amazed that the book of James was that. That I knew it was early, but I didn't know. I didn't put it that early. I mean, that's before the Jerusalem Council. [01:11:28] Speaker A: Yeah. 44 to 49 is what it says. Is what. [01:11:31] Speaker C: And so maybe that's another way of looking at it. That James wrote basically what James wrote and how he wrote, man, the whole doctrine of justification by grace through faith. I'm not. I mean, I'm sure he knew it was that, but I don't think it had been extrapolated the way it is that Paul. Yeah, because they. The whole argument is, well, James just looking at one side of the coin and Paul's looking at the other. [01:11:55] Speaker B: That's how I see it. [01:11:56] Speaker C: But Paul. But when you read James, that's a pretty. It's almost in your face. Well, I think it's almost Old Testament Christianity. [01:12:05] Speaker B: I think he takes. I think he takes the. [01:12:08] Speaker C: The Old Testament. [01:12:09] Speaker B: No, Paul's writing just expands it. No, he moves it more for after faith. After faith. And just really. Well, it's got to be faith. Faith. Your faith will show your work. [01:12:20] Speaker C: You're saying James takes Paul's writings? He can't. [01:12:22] Speaker B: No, I'm not saying that I'm saying he starts with Paul at the end of Saved by Faith. Saved by Faith. [01:12:29] Speaker C: If he wrote it that early, he didn't start. [01:12:30] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I know, but I didn't know that. I'm just saying. That's why I was questioning if James was so early. But he got killed. I didn't think that was the right James. [01:12:43] Speaker A: Let me, let me weigh in here real quick. [01:12:45] Speaker C: Well, I was amazed. I mean, I'm, I'm. I'm gonna go and look because that, that is. I don't, I don't remember. I know I didn't miss it on my New Testament exam. [01:12:53] Speaker B: What's that? [01:12:54] Speaker C: The date of when it was written. So I knew it then, but I thought James was a little bit later than that. [01:13:00] Speaker B: Oh, you talk about that when it was written? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know anything about that. Just thought the brother, the disciple James got killed. [01:13:09] Speaker C: The only reason I said that must be James. I mean, we know, know most people put it as James, half Jesus, half brother wrote. That's the James. [01:13:16] Speaker B: Yes, yes. Right, right, right. [01:13:17] Speaker C: If, you know, if the James that died early on, I thought that was. That's why when I heard 40 A.D. i said, well, it must be that cat. [01:13:26] Speaker B: I think it's actually mentioned in the Bible that it was John's brother. Yeah. [01:13:30] Speaker C: One of the son of Zebedee. [01:13:32] Speaker B: Because then he went after Peter. I think I just. [01:13:34] Speaker C: We saw what, what it did to the folks. [01:13:38] Speaker A: So the, the. The whole James vs. Paul debate and faith based, you know, works based or grace. Yeah, that's something that I hear people debate that. I, I'm not trying to be confrontational about it, but it's something that I don't think it's really as complicated as we make it out to be. In John 14 alone, I've got. I don't know how many times highlighted. If you love me, you will keep my commands. If you love me, anyone who loves me will. He will keep my word. He who has my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me. I mean, he says it over and over and over. So it's not one versus the other. They go together. It's not a. And I think that you. The fact that we can be so fractured on that, that we can debate it so much between different churches and denominations. It's like they go together. [01:14:23] Speaker B: I think James is taking faith saved by faith and extending it further. [01:14:28] Speaker A: If you don't, if you don't. [01:14:29] Speaker C: If there's no works. Yeah. For James, it all goes Back to. And again for Paul. Paul, they're both going to use Abraham. And that's where sometimes it comes in because Paul says, no, Abraham believed and it was reckoned unto him as righteousness. Well then James is going to argue, no, Abraham was justified by his deeds. Well, wait a minute. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? And what. And so that's where the argument comes in. In oftentimes is. Is. Is where what, what, what? [01:15:05] Speaker A: To your point from the sermon though, it's belief plus action. Is what? [01:15:10] Speaker C: Yeah, sure. It's going to show itself out and it's you. [01:15:13] Speaker A: If you believe and never take an action, then you did. Did you really have the belief? But if you act on a fake belief, then you know. Yeah, right. [01:15:22] Speaker B: Why would you act then believe. [01:15:24] Speaker A: It's a circular argument in a way. [01:15:26] Speaker C: Like, I mean, look, if you take James 2:21 out of context, was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? I'm not justified by works. [01:15:41] Speaker B: I don't think he's really. But Abraham was already stepped out in faith when he left a long time ago. [01:15:46] Speaker A: But when he. [01:15:47] Speaker C: If you take that verse out of context. Right. Was he not justified by works? Well, if you think justified by any kind of works. I'm justified by grace through faith. Faith. [01:15:56] Speaker A: But it was the action that it. It was the action that demonstrated the faith. [01:16:04] Speaker C: Right. Well, I mean, so it's. But see, that's the argument that they say is. James doesn't necessarily say it that way. [01:16:10] Speaker B: He's not arguing you, he's just arguing their point. [01:16:13] Speaker A: I'm just arguing. [01:16:14] Speaker C: I'm arguing what James says that I can see where they come and they. Oh yeah. But some may say you have faith and I have worked works. Show me your faith without works. You believe that God is one. That's good. You do. Well, the demons who believe also in shudder. But are you willing to acknowledge you foolish person? So he throws that in for y', all that faith without works is useless. Was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? So I mean, you could almost. If you take. Just stop right there. When minute. [01:16:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:48] Speaker C: Every Sunday Ben says you can't work yourself into heaven. Ben says that I can't justify myself by works according to what he just said. If you just take it there. And I think that's where people don't take into the whole. Keep going. [01:17:01] Speaker B: Well, Abraham, that's towards the end of his life. [01:17:06] Speaker C: Beginning or beginning. [01:17:08] Speaker B: He was a prophet. I Mean, he stepped out when he [01:17:12] Speaker C: left, but he was justified by his works. What James said. [01:17:15] Speaker B: So are you saying that he was not saved till then? That's what all. You're not saying. [01:17:21] Speaker C: All James is saying is it was. It was. We're saying your faith equals belief plus action. [01:17:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:31] Speaker C: James almost just. James almost just wants to say, no, it's your actions, but it just doesn't make. [01:17:37] Speaker B: It doesn't resonate or make sense. [01:17:39] Speaker A: This is. [01:17:41] Speaker C: That's why it's being written so early. [01:17:43] Speaker B: Holy. [01:17:43] Speaker C: That I just don't know the whole doctrine and everything was, was even developed. I mean, you. It's Paul that really develops it and comes back in a little bit later with more. [01:17:54] Speaker B: And then Peter agrees with him because he said, yeah, read Paul's stuff too. They're kind of hard to understand. But he's. [01:17:59] Speaker C: Yeah, but Peter agreed. But I never heard James do it. [01:18:03] Speaker B: Well, James. [01:18:03] Speaker A: Well, he hadn't had an opportunity to. [01:18:05] Speaker B: He couldn't. [01:18:06] Speaker A: Yeah, but what was the analogy used in church one time about stepping out on a raggedy bridge over. [01:18:12] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the. [01:18:13] Speaker A: I think I'm trying to get at it. It's. It's the stepping out onto that raggedy bridge that demonstrates that you trust it. [01:18:19] Speaker C: Right. But first, got to believe it. [01:18:21] Speaker A: If I'm standing here saying, I know that bridge will hold me, but I ain't stepping on it, see, then it takes that to. [01:18:28] Speaker C: And my whole argument is James and Paul are looking at the same coin. [01:18:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:33] Speaker C: Looking at him, I don't see a difference personally, but I can see it being argued and I can see why you need to be schooled. And how do you explain that? Because if I read James just like I just did and walked away, I'd be like, well, it sounds like I can be. [01:18:48] Speaker B: Well, I can take. [01:18:49] Speaker A: Well, you shouldn't cherry pick verses anyway for that one. [01:18:51] Speaker C: I mean, that's, that's the thing. But. But that's also some shit to deal with. [01:18:55] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:18:56] Speaker B: If I take James. This is just something I've thought about just a second, sitting here. I can take James and I can determine everybody's salvation. I can take Paul's writings and I can't determine anybody's salvation. Sure you can. Well, I'm just talking about in general. I'm not talking about by works. Okay. [01:19:18] Speaker A: He gave me the fruit of the Spirit. [01:19:20] Speaker C: I was going to say, wouldn't Galatians 5 kind of do that? [01:19:23] Speaker B: I'm trying to see. There's some people. [01:19:25] Speaker C: Wouldn't Colossians 3 kind of do that. [01:19:27] Speaker B: There's some people. I question their salvation. Okay, but I'm not. I don't have the. [01:19:34] Speaker C: The proof. [01:19:35] Speaker B: The. No, I don't have the gift. God. [01:19:37] Speaker C: Right. [01:19:37] Speaker B: That's not my. [01:19:38] Speaker C: But, but I'm just saying that Paul does give you some. Some evidences. [01:19:43] Speaker B: Yeah, but we can watch the evidence of the guy dying on the cross. [01:19:49] Speaker C: What? [01:19:49] Speaker B: Now, the guy that was. That died on the cross, there were no works. [01:19:53] Speaker C: That's not where this argument started, though. [01:19:55] Speaker B: What. [01:19:55] Speaker C: What your statement was is James tells me how I can look and see if someone may be saved. I think so. [01:20:01] Speaker A: Paul doesn't. [01:20:01] Speaker B: Doesn't. [01:20:02] Speaker C: Sure, Paul does. [01:20:04] Speaker B: But then that. But then you added to it. [01:20:07] Speaker C: No, I didn't add. All I did is I said, yeah, Paul gives you plenty of evidences. Galatians, 5, Colossians 3. [01:20:16] Speaker B: But we really don't know for certain about somebody dying. Right? [01:20:20] Speaker C: No, and that's not. That's. [01:20:22] Speaker B: That's my point. That's what. That's what I was saying. [01:20:24] Speaker C: All right. Thanks for doing a good job taking it. [01:20:28] Speaker B: Or somebody. Somebody that. Somebody that we see in sin that we think. [01:20:34] Speaker C: Right. [01:20:35] Speaker B: We don't know if they're trying or what they're doing. They fought, you know, that we think that, like, we question their salvation, and we had no right to question their salvation because we don't know if they're trying or not. [01:20:47] Speaker C: Okay, but that ain't where your argument started. [01:20:49] Speaker B: You didn't give me time to finish. [01:20:51] Speaker C: Oh, I think we did. I think we're finished. [01:20:54] Speaker B: Is. [01:20:59] Speaker A: Well, I'm gonna bring a whistle next time. I'm gonna be referee. I'm bringing a whistle. [01:21:03] Speaker C: That's my man. Started with James. Get your evidences and be upald on. But then. Then it comes back. This is what I'm arguing. [01:21:11] Speaker B: Then you say this, and I got to come back because that. You were missing my point. But y'. All. Y' all got to get it. [01:21:16] Speaker A: It was me. It was me missing your point. [01:21:18] Speaker B: I'm glad you finally love it. Y. [01:21:22] Speaker C: Love. [01:21:23] Speaker B: I love it. [01:21:23] Speaker C: Man, it is good to be back with you boys. [01:21:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I enjoy. I missed it, actually. [01:21:28] Speaker C: I do. I miss it. [01:21:29] Speaker A: He sounds surprised. I missed it, actually. [01:21:33] Speaker B: We got to change locations. What? Sunday? [01:21:36] Speaker C: Well, I think we go down to Port Smith Island. [01:21:39] Speaker A: That'd be fun. [01:21:40] Speaker B: We can't get anything in Port Smith Island. I mean, there's no. You probably won't even get. [01:21:46] Speaker C: We're not shooting live. All we're doing is recording. Recording. Oh, you can. [01:21:49] Speaker B: You record. Oh, you. Nothing. They don't have electricity. So if your battery goes down, you're dead. [01:21:54] Speaker A: So it won't be. So it won't be released until I get back. But I mean, yeah, it can be done. [01:22:00] Speaker C: We can go to ice cream shop one day. [01:22:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:22:06] Speaker C: Go to the ice cream shop here in Fuqua or Andrew if you want to. [01:22:09] Speaker B: All right. Yeah. Where's that ice cream? I'm thinking of one at Carolina Beach. Beach. [01:22:15] Speaker C: There's a couple. [01:22:16] Speaker B: There are. There's some good. [01:22:17] Speaker C: I'd rather just go to Briz. [01:22:19] Speaker B: Do you sit at the counter when you go there or do you. [01:22:22] Speaker C: No, normally I get a bag and take it back. [01:22:24] Speaker B: The whole bag. [01:22:25] Speaker C: 12 this usually I've got my family. [01:22:28] Speaker A: This is going to take a while. Bye, y'. All. [01:22:33] Speaker C: Your wife drive home if I ask her to. Good luck. Good luck with mine. She. She'd be like. I mean, she would. If I like got injured down there. [01:22:44] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm just talking about. [01:22:45] Speaker C: But she ain't driving home if, you know, I. I'm. I'm pretty much the driver. [01:22:50] Speaker B: I don't listen to the Christian music that's box or the unsaved, which is cnn. Those guys, they're up for their own [01:23:02] Speaker C: sins because they are.